N/E washington?

[BeeMan]

  I haven't completely read every reply on this topic, just skimmed through the long ones, but I haven't seen anyone take into account the amount of deer killed by cars on our N/E washington roads.  I would bet there are way more deer killed on our roads in any given year than there are killed during hunting season in that same year.  I drive a 20 mile stretch of hwy 395 N of Spokane every day and its not uncommon for me to see a new dead deer on the side of the road at least 3-4 times a week.  And those are just the ones I can see from the road. There are plenty more that get hit and later die from their injuries out of our view.  There simply is no way to know the exact impact that this has on our deer populations. And I guarantee that poaching also has an impact especially in the less populated areas where it occurs quite regularly.  (No way to track except for the few that get caught)  For us to overlook these areas and go ahead and start to argue that we can improve deer populations by changing seasons, implement restrictions, or change hunting laws in my opinion is kinda ridiculous.    We might as well argue that we need to reduce the speed limit to 25mph and ban driving right before dark for a couple hours and again at first light in the morning.  We all know that would never happen so we take the the easier approach and change things for the smaller groups of people...(The hunters).    I do believe that there needs to be a responsible approach to harvesting animals through hunting and I think we already have that. The Department of Fish and Wildlife does a great job, but why do we always have to be changing things.  What we are doing now works Just Fine and we should leave it alone.  I would also bet that those that hunt using bait in this state is probably less than 2% of all hunters because of the work, time, and cost that is involved in maintaining such a method.

[mdbuck5x5]

dbhawthorne:

I understand what you are saying and honestly I don't have any problems with what you do and don't do. Everything that I said about bait and cams is MY opinion. I'm not telling anybody what to do. I choose not to use bait and cams because I don't need  them. This is america and we have the right to do what we want if we so choose. Sorry if you were misled by my post.

I hunted without them for years and my success rates have not improved since using them (probably gone down because I am even more selective

So let me ask you a question if you don't mind. If the above statement you made is true then why even spend the time and money if your results are nill or worse? I mean after hunting an area for years wouldnt you have a pretty good understanding of the geography and where the game concentrate. Just curious.

[grundy53]

dbhawthorne:

I understand what you are saying and honestly I don't have any problems with what you do and don't do. Everything that I said about bait and cams is MY opinion. I'm not telling anybody what to do. I choose not to use bait and cams because I don't need  them. This is america and we have the right to do what we want if we so choose. Sorry if you were misled by my post.

I hunted without them for years and my success rates have not improved since using them (probably gone down because I am even more selective

So let me ask you a question if you don't mind. If the above statement you made is true then why even spend the time and money if your results are nill or worse? I mean after hunting an area for years wouldnt you have a pretty good understanding of the geography and where the game concentrate. Just curious.

i believe he is stating that since he see's larger deer on his cameras it makes it harder to pull the trigger on a 140 buck that he would have shot with out hesitation pre camera. it's not so much not knowing where bucks are in general, it's just harder to settle for what used to be acceptable. as the saying goes... ignorance is bliss.... 

[mdbuck5x5]

Grundy:

So now we have to result to name calling huh?   I guess that just goes to show how mature you are. I hunt for meat and not trophies. Hunting has never been about trophies for me.

[quadrafire]

Grundy:

So now we have to result to name calling huh?   I guess that just goes to show how mature you are. I hunt for meat and not trophies. Hunting has never been about trophies for me.

[grundy53]

Grundy:

So now we have to result to name calling huh?   I guess that just goes to show how mature you are. I hunt for meat and not trophies. Hunting has never been about trophies for me.

What are you talking about? "ingnorance is bliss" wasn't directed at you at all. i was merely pointing out how sometimes it's nice to shoot a smaller deer and not know there is a bigger one out there cause it might drive you nuts and take away from the trophy. Hence the hunter would be ignorent of any larger bucks being around. it wasn't directed at you at all. But thank you for letting me know how mature i am.  

[DBHAWTHORNE]

dbhawthorne:

I understand what you are saying and honestly I don't have any problems with what you do and don't do. Everything that I said about bait and cams is MY opinion. I'm not telling anybody what to do. I choose not to use bait and cams because I don't need  them. This is america and we have the right to do what we want if we so choose. Sorry if you were misled by my post.

I hunted without them for years and my success rates have not improved since using them (probably gone down because I am even more selective

So let me ask you a question if you don't mind. If the above statement you made is true then why even spend the time and money if your results are nill or worse? I mean after hunting an area for years wouldnt you have a pretty good understanding of the geography and where the game concentrate. Just curious.

I understand and 100% agree on holding an opinion. The issue arises when we go to the voting blocks and our opinion takes away the rights of the minority simply for the reason that it doens't appeal to our idea of what hunting is about (which we both know happens). I know the future of baiting in this state is not good and it's just a matter of time before it is a distant memory. However, if you took just whitetail bowhunters (the primary user group of this hunting method) I believe it would be supported by an overwhelming majority. Before I hunted using this method I shared the same opinions as you have so I completely understand. My view on hunting rights changed as a whole after I started using this method because it was the first time I have ever used a method that was heavily under attack by fellow hunters. Now I have a completely different outlook on hunting methods whether I use/like them or not. The use of dog's in the south is something I used to hate (and it definitely impacted my hunt). I would have happily voted against it in the past...not anymore.

On another note...despite the fact that I now bait...I have my own issues with baiting...primarily the effects it can have on deer making it through the winter. A deer's gastrointestinal tract is very sensitive and an unbaited deer in the big woods will go through changes preparing it for the low quality food that it eats for survival during the winter. Baiting can prohibit a deers system from making these changes and in rare cases it can actually kill a deer. I believe it only happens in rare cases because I think most deer do not gorge themself on that type of food source during the winter. However, it is defintiely something to consider that appeals to my senses much more than losing the right to bait becaue it doesn't appeal to the non-users view of a hunting experience.

My results with baiting/cameras definitely aren't worse when it come to seeing 140 and under bucks. I would say they are slightly better than neal for seeing bucs of that caliber and pretty much neal for seeing bucks (while hunting) that are larger than 140's. I like using them because it does give me an undeniable advantage in finding and hunting "the one". By "the one" I mean a personal best or very unique animal.  I can't hunt them unless I find them and there is no doubt it allows me to find them. The second advantage it gives me is it (sometimes) allows me to narrow in on "the one's" core area faster than I ever could before. For instance before cameras I would glass constantly (still do) and I would find a handful of 140 class bucks and perhaps one 150-160 class buck (finding 2 of that caliber was a great year for me personally). I would set stands and I would adjust throughout the season as necessary until I found a bucks core area. Now I can cover way more territory and find more "the one's" than ever before. I have found having a single "the one" greatly reduces the chance of ending the season with a tag filled so it is good to have at least 2-3 options. Finally, a camera during the season let's me know if a buck I have been hunting has dropped off the map. For instance a big buck I was concentrating efforts on late this year dropped off the map several days prior to late bow. I never saw him again. I was able to adjust and hunt other "the one's" accordingly. I was also able to use my cameras to continue scouting the area for him while I was hunting other areas. Perhaps I could have located him a mile or two down the road (didn't happen this year).  I am not denying the advantage in locating and learning the habits of a whitetail...the advantage is real and the learning outcome is great. I have lived, eaten and breathed (okay obssessed ) whitetail and only whitetail since I was a kid. In the few years I have used cameras with bait my learning outcome has accelerated at a much faster rate than at any other time in my hunting life.

Thanks for the good discussion

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Grundy:

So now we have to result to name calling huh?   I guess that just goes to show how mature you are. I hunt for meat and not trophies. Hunting has never been about trophies for me.

I dont' think he was name calling when he said "ignorance is bliss". He wasn't talking about you...if anything he was talking about me/himself/others...prior to using cameras. Prior to using cameras many of us would have shot a beautiful 140's buck becasue we may think it is the biggest buck in our area...sometimes cameras reveal giant bucks that you never see while scouting with other methods.

Hunting for me is not about the trophy or the meat (I can buy meat at the grocery store for much cheaper than what 99% of us hunters spend on hunting); it is about the experience. My dad always said "You can't eat the horns"... However, I have often (not always) found a close correlation between the antler size and body size. Bigger antlers often means more venison. I love venison. I have also found that big antlers generally enhances the experience for most (it does for me...though my smallest buck (first buck) is still one of my favorites). I have met very few hunters in my lifetime that wouldn't prefer to kill a big buck if given the option. The difference is that we all have things we want from our experience and we individually tailor our priorities to our desires. I actually think it's one of the great things about hunting.

[mdbuck5x5]

Well thank you...I believe your answer sums up my question nicely. Not sure what its gonna take but I hope one day hunting in this state can get back to the way it was in the 80's and early 90's. Sorry if I came off with a bad attitude in my posts. I wasn't and never will bash anyone for the methods they use. One thing for sure is I usually never sit on the fence about an issue.

And to Grundy I made a mistake and I'm sorry. I guess I didn't read your post correctly. I'll head to the bathroom and change my pad now. Please accept my apology. Last thing I want to do is get into it with anyone here.

[grundy53]

Well thank you...I believe your answer sums up my question nicely. Not sure what its gonna take but I hope one day hunting in this state can get back to the way it was in the 80's and early 90's. Sorry if I came off with a bad attitude in my posts. I wasn't and never will bash anyone for the methods they use. One thing for sure is I usually never sit on the fence about an issue.

And to Grundy I made a mistake and I'm sorry. I guess I didn't read your post correctly. I'll head to the bathroom and change my pad now. Please accept my apology. Last thing I want to do is get into it with anyone here.

no worries. we've all done it. lol   

[grundy53]

Grundy:

So now we have to result to name calling huh?   I guess that just goes to show how mature you are. I hunt for meat and not trophies. Hunting has never been about trophies for me.

I dont' think he was name calling when he said "ignorance is bliss". He wasn't talking about you...if anything he was talking about me/himself/others...prior to using cameras. Prior to using cameras many of us would have shot a beautiful 140's buck becasue we may think it is the biggest buck in our area...sometimes cameras reveal giant bucks that you never see while scouting with other methods.

Hunting for me is not about the trophy or the meat (I can buy meat at the grocery store for much cheaper than what 99% of what hunters spend on hunting); it is about the experience. My dad always said "You can't eat the horns"... However, I have often (not always) found a close correlation between the antler size and body size. Bigger antlers often means more venison. I love venison. I have also found that big antlers generally enhances the experience for most (it does for me...though my smalles buck (first buck) is still one of my favorites). I have met very few hunters in my lifetime that wouldn't prefer to kill a big buck if given the option. The difference is that we all have things we want from our experience and we individually tailor our priorities to our desires. I actually think it's one of the great things about hunting.

 spot on

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Well thank you...I believe your answer sums up my question nicely. Not sure what its gonna take but I hope one day hunting in this state can get back to the way it was in the 80's and early 90's. Sorry if I came off with a bad attitude in my posts. I wasn't and never will bash anyone for the methods they use. One thing for sure is I usually never sit on the fence about an issue.

And to Grundy I made a mistake and I'm sorry. I guess I didn't read your post correctly. I'll head to the bathroom and change my pad now. Please accept my apology. Last thing I want to do is get into it with anyone here.

I really wish I could have had the opportunity to hunt here in those days. I didn't get up here until 97. I love it here. It's where I belong.

I don't think you came off with a bad attitude. I think these topics/differences in opinion are great things to discuss and I think it is hard not to be passionate about something we love.

[boneaddict]

THere are whitetails out there that I bet have never been seen by man.  Now with the invention of the trail cam that has tipped the scales.  I bet there are STILL ones out there that are eluding you/us.   They are not like Muledeer whatsoever.  I still think the ground swallows them up and they only come out a week or two a year to play.

[mdbuck5x5]

  Ain't that the truth!

[Pathfinder101]