Author Topic: Toutle access question (Read 14193 times)

b0bbyg · « **on:** July 16, 2012, 01:22:11 PM »

New to the site and not asking where to hunt. I know that can strike a nerve with many on these forums.

I have the archery bull tag and have been researching online and scouting on weekends. As I have been reading through several old threads about the Toutle unit I see people talking about the Weyerhauser land getting "closed" during archery. For those who have seen this does it mean you cannot drive on their roads or that you cannot walk in past their gates.

I have already been scouting twice and found a few of their gates locked. But the hotline only says no motorized access.

If there is any feedback for this I would appreciate it, that was I can focus my scouting to state owned areas only if they close up WH lands.

blackveltbowhunter · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2012, 01:28:05 PM »

The archery season can be tough, The farm will be closed to vehicle access .... during high fire danger it will be closed for all access. The nice thing for you, is your season will go longer this year giving you more opportunity to have some weather come in and open the ground up. at least for non motorized access. Good luck!

washelkhunter · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2012, 01:31:30 PM »

Get your mtn bike and ride in behind the gates.

b0bbyg · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2012, 02:29:04 PM »

Quote from: blackveltbowhunter on July 16, 2012, 01:28:05 PM

The archery season can be tough, The farm will be closed to vehicle access .... during high fire danger it will be closed for all access. The nice thing for you, is your season will go longer this year giving you more opportunity to have some weather come in and open the ground up. at least for non motorized access. Good luck!

Thanks! this is what I was hoping to learn. I have mostly looked around in the southern part of the unit so far. Hope to scout the north side state land as well. If time allows I would not mind learning some about the timber company areas for if the weather permits access.

Wiley · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2012, 07:58:17 PM »

I had that tag last year. I did the same thing your doing. I scouted all Pre-season. When early season opened they closed their property because of fire danger. What that meant was NO TRUCK! NO BIKE! NO WALK!

The last firday of early season they opened it back up to walk in only. I shot a nice bull that afternoon. On our way out a warehouser security guy drove by and shook us down. He said if we were here the day before we would had gotten a large ticket for trespassing.

Anyways its an alright tag if you can hunt the early season.
Good luck

nwelktooth · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2012, 08:21:24 PM »

I've had the toutle tag a couple of times and there is some good hunting not behind Weyerhauser gates.

Mudman · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2012, 08:35:01 PM »

Learn what land is not weyco. Alot of state land up there. Elk on both. Scout state land in case weyco is closed. I was up there a month ago(dad has tag) and seen many elk not on weyco. If all land is closed it dont really matter, pray for rain?

b0bbyg · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2012, 08:48:54 AM »

Thanks for the input guys I will make sure I avoid any tickets, that would sure screw up the season.
I think our goal will be to setup camp somewhere that has access to state and Weyco land. If Weyco closes us out then we will have the state land if not we can fan out more. Just need to pick which we like more the north side or south side.

There are some areas where you cross a little Weyco land to get to state land. There are no gates on the roads in this area so I guess I will call Weyco to make sure I can cross over to the state areas.

Really hoping to get my son on a bull this year. He also has the tag and I really would love for him to drop a bull. Big would be nice but anything with antlers on the ground would be a great year.

MADMAX · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2012, 08:55:27 AM »

Definetely the biggest problem is fire closures.
I took the first 4pt I could get a kill shot on.
Recommend you do the same.

b0bbyg · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2012, 09:02:51 AM »

Quote from: MADMAX on July 17, 2012, 08:55:27 AM

Definetely the biggest problem is fire closures.
I took the first 4pt I could get a kill shot on.
Recommend you do the same.

I am primarly a meat hunter so if it gets in range and there is a antler I am shooting. Unless my son has already tagged out. Then I could be a little more selective.

I will encourage my son to take the first decent bull he can, it will be his call to let the arrow fly but I will "hint" he not to pass up on any 4-5 point if he gets the shot.

fireweed · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2012, 09:12:41 AM »

As a resident in Toutle itself, and an advocate for access, I have been fighting this situation for years. Not only does Weyerhaeuser close their land to all access for "fire danger" they BLOCK 35,000 acres of DNR land and 7,000 acres of WDFW land AND parts of the Mount St. Helens National Monument (yes, some is open to hunting) too. How can this be right? A private company holding nearly 50,000 acres of PUBLIC LAND hostage year after year. And it's not just a fire issue. They could charge access fees any day--company after company is doing it. Yep, you could soon pay Weyerhaeuser for access to DNR, WDFW and USFS land. The problem is no legal easements through Weyco. land. It's the largest "landlocked" piece of public land in the state, and because Weyco. is King in Cowlitz Co. If Weyco. says no access, then everybody just bends over and takes it. Best you can do is complain in writing to everyone you can think of, including Jamie Herrera who is aware that USFS land is involved.

PS. Weyerhaeuser decides what is or isn't fire danger, even though the DNR might still allow logging as usual. (the DNR has a rating system but private land closures aren't tied to it)

PS. They paying has begun, you need a Discover Pass for that state land.

bobcat · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2012, 09:21:13 AM »

Well Fireweed you pretty much covered what I was going to say- the problem being that if Weyerhaeuser is shut down, there is no access to the large block of state land either. So it's not like you can just hunt the state land if Weyerhaeuser decides to lock their gates due to fire danger. You won't be able to get to the state land. There is some state land down in the very southern part of the Toutle unit that will still be accessible. But not much, if any, that I know of in the north end.

MR5x5 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2012, 12:54:22 PM »

It's really not a matter of "IF" Weyco is going to shut down the woods for early archery, it's just a matter of to what extent - Vehicles only or Walk-in too. Really has very little to do with fire danger...

You can't really access from the west because the Coweeman will be closed. Not much in the way of good access from the East either. There is a little bit of hike in access from the south...

My advise would be to figure out the DNR land in the north 3rd of the unit. Definitely elk there. Don't rule out parking in the bottom and crossing the river with a bike.

There will be a good deal of pressure up north with all of the cow tags. I'd hit it hard early. It does not take long for the elk to jump the ridge into the Loo-Witt.

Shawn Ryan · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2012, 03:41:33 PM »

If you are willing to bike and hike, you can get good access to the State Land from the Goat Lake area on the far east side. The hike and bike is relatively easy and you won't get much pressure there. If Weyco land is open, you can also get good bike access from the Merrell Lake area on the east side, close to the middle of the unit. You can also get decent access from the south via the limited road system leading up to the south boundary of the Toutle from roads heading north from the Lewis River Hwy.

We shot elk on the far east boundary in 2004 when we had the tags and I've scouted that area several times via access from the Goat Lake area roads and trails. Just gotta be willing to put the boots on the ground.

If I had the tag again, I'd focus a fair amount of my scouting and hunting time on the southern portion of the unit and the rest on the far east portion near St. Helens and the Loowit.

kentrek · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2012, 08:46:16 PM »

Quote from: Shawn Ryan on July 17, 2012, 03:41:33 PM

We shot elk on the far east boundary in 2004 when we had the tags and I've scouted that area several times via access from the Goat Lake area roads and trails. Just gotta be willing to put the boots on the ground.

If I had the tag again, I'd focus a fair amount of my scouting and hunting time on the southern portion of the unit and the rest on the far east portion near St. Helens and the Loowit.

x2

BowBender87 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 18, 2012, 08:53:53 PM »

Quote from: bobcat on July 17, 2012, 09:21:13 AM

Well Fireweed you pretty much covered what I was going to say- the problem being that if Weyerhaeuser is shut down, there is no access to the large block of state land either. So it's not like you can just hunt the state land if Weyerhaeuser decides to lock their gates due to fire danger. You won't be able to get to the state land. There is some state land down in the very southern part of the Toutle unit that will still be accessible. But not much, if any, that I know of in the north end.

are you sure? I thought they cant block access to state land?

b0bbyg · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2012, 08:59:16 PM »

Thank you to everyone who responded. I appreciate the advice and insight.

Only 7 weekends left until the season opens! Better learn to bugle better since I have a bull tag

Curly · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2012, 08:59:58 PM »

Quote from: BowBender87 on July 18, 2012, 08:53:53 PM

Quote from: bobcat on July 17, 2012, 09:21:13 AM
Well Fireweed you pretty much covered what I was going to say- the problem being that if Weyerhaeuser is shut down, there is no access to the large block of state land either. So it's not like you can just hunt the state land if Weyerhaeuser decides to lock their gates due to fire danger. You won't be able to get to the state land. There is some state land down in the very southern part of the Toutle unit that will still be accessible. But not much, if any, that I know of in the north end.
are you sure? I thought they cant block access to state land?

Yep. They do almost every year.

fireweed · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:56:20 AM »

There is no easement to that DNR for "public access" through Weyco.
This photo (if it comes through) shows the route to 35,000 acres of DNR closed to all entry by Weyco. The WDFW is well aware of the issue, and has worked out a "monitoring" system in years past for tag holders. The big middle orange sign is a WDFW sign. They posted people at the gate, morning and evening and checked in hunters a few years ago.
I've talked to Weyco. and this is all about CONTROL. They want control of not only their land, but public land too. Given the number of county and state roads that criss-cross their timberland, the idea that folks driving through on a wide road creates an unacceptible fire hazard is silly. They've got to shut that road every year to proove there is no grandfathered-type easement for public use. ie. they are in complete control.

lonedave · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2012, 09:21:31 PM »

I drew the rifle bull tag this year and am assuming based on past threads that the area roads are generally open during November. Is that a correct assumption? Living on the east side of the state and due to the permit only nature of the unit, (now don't start the flaming

), I've ever been in the area. I've just never closed the deal on a branched bull and was hoping before I get too old, that I could find one with my name on it. With the success rate and talk on this forum about the unit, I figured it was a good bet! If the area roads are open in November, can you camp on the DNR property or does the "no camping" extend to that too? The DNR website seems to say that camping is OK, so I was hoping to drag my little tent trailer over for the season and give it my full attention. The other thing I'm not really clear on is after listening to the Weyco access message, I can't tell if bikes are OK or not behind the gates? I assume that if they are closed to all access, that means no bikes too, but there may be times the message would say no vehicles, but that bikes or walk-ins are OK. Is that correct? I've got a bike, trailer, boots, and a meat pack, all used, so I'm OK with any of them too. I just need to know that some sort of access will be available to me.

I plan to swing by for a day on the way back from Westport next weekend, so hopefully I can look over some areas then.

Thanks for any info.

Dave

Shawn Ryan · « **Reply #20 on:** July 19, 2012, 09:51:39 PM »

You can camp on the DNR land. Some of the best camping spots are on the north side of the ridge in the LooWit unit. Don't rule those out. Bring water.

The Weyco recorded line will tell you most of what you need to know about access. Bikes are OK unless their entire farm is closed for fire danger. Not usual during November. Hike and bike beyond gates is OK then.

fireweed · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:00:50 PM »

That's right. Camping on DNR is ok (need discover pass

). Weyco usually keeps their "access corridor" to state land open UNLESS there is extreme fire danger. They are aware of the anger closing PUBLIC land creates, and in Nov. I can't think of a time the access corridor out of the South Toutle Road has been closed. They usually open their company gates for rifle season. Sometimes volunteers will man the gates, esp. if there is any logging going on in the area. Some other timbercompanies open key gates during rifle too, but not all, esp. the ones close to Mt. St. Helens. (They want the elk reduced for tree damage). No camping on Weyco. or other private timberland, and they close their gates at dark--so if you get one you could be locked in.

b0bbyg · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:33:27 PM »

Quote from: fireweed on July 20, 2012, 12:00:50 PM

That's right. Camping on DNR is ok (need discover pass ). Weyco usually keeps their "access corridor" to state land open UNLESS there is extreme fire danger. They are aware of the anger closing PUBLIC land creates, and in Nov. I can't think of a time the access corridor out of the South Toutle Road has been closed. They usually open their company gates for rifle season. Sometimes volunteers will man the gates, esp. if there is any logging going on in the area. Some other timbercompanies open key gates during rifle too, but not all, esp. the ones close to Mt. St. Helens. (They want the elk reduced for tree damage). No camping on Weyco. or other private timberland, and they close their gates at dark--so if you get one you could be locked in.

Is the discover pass for camping on DNR land a new thing? Used to be only for the improved campgrounds and trailheads I thought.

Curly · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:08:05 PM »

It should be only for campgrounds, but the DP is now needed for vehicular access to all DNR lands........

MagKarl · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2012, 09:01:16 PM »

I drew the Toutle archery bull tag in 09. Weyco was all closed due to fire danger, but the 4100/4250 access corridor to the state land block on the North end of the unit was open. I had no access problems to the state land. Good luck, I can't wait to draw again myself.

bobcat · « **Reply #25 on:** July 20, 2012, 09:38:15 PM »

I drew a Toutle archery permit in 2001. Weyerhaeuser was closed and the road into the state land was closed as well. I never did get to hunt the Toutle that year. Luckily the WDFW was nice and restored the 9 points I used to draw that tag.

I believe the archery Toutle permits now have a season in September, and a season in November. So if you can't hunt in September, you've still got the November season as a back up.

lonedave · « **Reply #26 on:** July 22, 2012, 06:29:25 PM »

Thanks for the information on the camping. I have a discover pass, so that's covered and the message still says the same three public access corridors are open. I guess I'll throw my bike in when I come over next weekend as the message says non-motorized access is OK behind all gates too. I just wish it was a little closer to home so I could scout a bit more.

Bluesdude · « **Reply #27 on:** July 24, 2012, 07:10:35 AM »

I too would hunt primarily the far east part of the unit, check out Trouble Creek and the basins above it. There used to be a block of Green Crow Property that you could maybe get permission to camp on.

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