Where to start

[Gutpile]

Thinking about picking up a ML and starting to use it for elk, bear and possibly deer in 09. Anyways where do I start? Which brands/models should I consider? The most important thing to me is reliability. I love the looks of the the old style hawken rifles with the side locks but if they don't fire reliably in all weather I'm not interested. Heard way to many horror stories (CLICK). I'd also like one thats easier to clean and maintain. I've got a ways to go but I'm desperate to  get away from the crowds during Elk season. It's depressing.

ML's seem very affordable but are the cheap CVA's and the like junk?

Point me in the right direction.

Oh, lastly caliber. I more than likely will not use it for deer so what would be the most suitable caliber for Elk/Bear?

Thanks!!!! Mark

[jdb]

The Bi-mart has a pretty good deal on a knight bighorn comes with everything but powder and caps. as far as the realiabilty of a hawkins go I would fear not Ive shot mine for over a decade and if you treat it good it will treat you good and I find it no more difficult to clean then my sons knight. aslo if your lookin to get away from crowds you may have a rude awakening last year in unit 368 it was just as crowded as modern. but I really love hunting with my hawkin if there were better seasons geared toward muzzleloadeds Id probvably hunt with mine exclusively. feel free to ask me any questions you have I could talk black powder all day. JB

[Gutpile]

Thanks. I'd be hunting on the eastside and I do run into guys ML hunting up there when I'm grouse hunting but no where near the numbers I see during modern firearm season. We'll see what happens I'm strongly considering it.

What would be the opyimum caliber for elk / bear

[Sagedawg]

 Pretty easy to get started up really. There are tricks to make your sidelock fire in wet weather, so thats an option. As far as inlines IMO the Knight Bighorn is the only one that is legal in Washington so far. Easy to clean ,accurate fun to shoot and carry. They come in 50 and 52 cal ,but Id stay away from the 52 because its an oddball. The 50 will be fine for elk . You can adjust and tailor your loads as needed.  You'll get hooked thats for sure.

  Sage

[DeKuma]

Take a run out to Colville and visit Clark's.  They are a huge wealth of knowledge on ML.  Bought one there last year. Cannot remember the name though at the moment.  Step-mom used it for deer last year.  Works pretty well, and I did not find it too difficult to clean.  Dad and I bought it to give us more options for hunting.  Can go either Bow, Rifle or ML now.  Was not that expensive to get everything either.

[buckhorn2]

I have had a hawken 50 but to much trouble in the weather we have on the coast. Had a white but trouble finding bullets as they use virgin lead. Also tryed a knight but all my hunting buddies and I have went to the thompson black diamond. Whave taken 6 bulls the last 2 years and they really shoot. We use 3 50 grain triple seven pellets and the 348 power belt bullets they are easy to clean. Always after cleaning when you start to load fire 3 caps through it before loading and we have;nt had any misfires. good luck

[Gutpile]

So lets say you hunt all day and don't fire the gun. It's wet and nasty. Do you fire the load in the gun at the end of the day or do you keep that charge in and re-use it the next day? I know that it's not "loaded" without the cap but how long would you trust that charge? I would think you'd want a fresh one every morning but ....

Make sense??

[Sagedawg]

 I pull the load that night then reload in the morning. Try to eliminate ALL chances of misfires, but thats just me. My cousin on the other hand keeps the same load in until his hunt is over, then he unloads heads home and cleans his gun. As far as I know he's only had 1 misfire, and it cost him a nice buck......


  Sage

[300rum]

Had a Remington 700 ML go click, still sick about it, Monster 4 point at 20yds and all I could do is watch.  There is nothing more sickening.  It wasn't even raining, I still don't know what happened.  With the Rem I just took the back plug out and pushed the old load through every night, I never fired it except at game.  I always used a new nipple that was never fired.  I think they make nipples with a bigger hole now but I do know some guys who drill theirs out to put more fire on the powder.

[300rum]

ML's seem very affordable but are the cheap CVA's and the like junk?

My dad bought a CVA.  The only thing that I didn't like about it was it didn't "feel right", I was used to the remington stock.  The rifle shot great no problems.

[CP]

I expect that we will be able a use 209 primers in 2009.  I don’t see how this state can continue to keep the industry standard illegal. 

[bobcat]

I expect that we will be able a use 209 primers in 2009.  I don't see how this state can continue to keep the industry standard illegal. 

Probably the same way Idaho and Oregon continue to keep them illegal.

[Gutpile]

Most in lines are interchangeable arent they? So if I buy one now I can use 209's if they do legalize them.

[CP]

Most in lines are interchangeable arent they? So if I buy one now I can use 209's if they do legalize them.

No, there are only a couple that I know of, the Knight Bighorn and one of the Thompsons.

[CP]

I expect that we will be able a use 209 primers in 2009.  I don't see how this state can continue to keep the industry standard illegal. 

Probably the same way Idaho and Oregon continue to keep them illegal.

I just read OR regs, they are more screwed up than WA in some ways. 

But during modern weapon season, any ignition is legal, except for match locks (because of the huge advantage that matchlock weapons have over modern rifles    ).

You’re right; I shouldn’t expect common sense from any government agency.

[bobcat]

Actually I agree with the restrictions we have, and wish they were even more stringent. The muzzleloader seasons were originally meant to be for primitive weapons. Well, our modern inlines aren't so primitive anymore, and the muzzleloader seasons are now much more crowded than they used to be. If it were up to me, inlines wouldn't be allowed in this state at all. I'd be more than happy to sell my inline and go back to my sidelock if they were to outlaw inlines.

[MagKarl]

I'm a sidelock fan myself.  I have a Lyman Great Plains caplock in .54.  I only shoot black powder and patched round balls, so cleanup is simple, hot water, scrub, dry, bore butter, done. I've only hunted one season with BP so far, but no ignition troubles at all even hunting rain and snow in the late season.  A few things you might want to consider:  What kind of projectile do you want to shoot and how much shooting will you do?  Round balls are the least expensive and since patches seal between the ball and bore, you can go quite a while without cleaning at a range session, if even at all.  What rifling twist? Barrels with slow twist 1:48 or less, usually shoot balls well.  Fast twist barrels usually shoot longer conical bullets better, but may not produce good accuracy with balls.  The longer the bullet is, the faster the twist needs to be to stabilize the bullet and get good accuracy. 1:48 is a compromise that can do both most of the time, that's why it's so popular in a lot of sidelocks from Lyman and TC, etc.    Here's one of the best places to shop for a Lyman sidelock.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/

[CP]

If it were up to me, inlines wouldn't be allowed in this state at all.

I’d go along with that too but as long as in-lines are allowed it doesn’t make sense to ban 98% of them making it difficult to find something legal.  It should be all in-lines or no in-lines, I don’t care which.