Stuck Breech Plug on Disc Extreme

[kerrdog]

My breech plug is stuck .  The wrench that came with it is just a cylinder with holes in the side (presumably I'm supposed to find something to stick through the side holes to rotate the cylinder thus unthreading the plug).  I've bent gutter spikes, tent spikes, cleaning rods and nothing is strong enough.  So I got out my socket set.  My extension is just short.  So I locked some vice-grips on the cylinder and turned with all my might........... Do I have to put the stock in a vice and put a cheater pipe on it?  I only fired about 20 rounds and had that plug greased up and not overly tight.

[gutsnthegrass]

This same thing happened to me after the first time I took it to the range.  Fired 18 shots through it and took it home to clean, breech plug was stuck so tight I was cussing at it.  I finally put the socket and extension on it, used a cheater bar, and put the gun on the ground and used my feet to hold it down.  It did finally come loose after some more cussing.

[usmc74]

I had to spray penetrating oil down the barrel of my kids ML.  Soak a few days, and finally got it to move.

Does the disk have the same 7/16" hex on the breech plug?

My Bighorn I had to use a socket with extension once (lost the factory tool).
I used a philips screwdriver to turn the factory tool.

ALWAYS use grease, and don't crank it down hard (I know you said you didn't)

[The100Road]

My Traditions did the same thing. I ended up taking the berrel off and putting the breach end in boiling water for a few. took it out and while it was still hot got the breach plug to break free.

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Ya like all stated the fun begins! Soak it and eat some Wheaties! Good luck

[kerrdog]

Thanks for the replies everyone.  I went to the store and bought a socket extension, put my longest socket wrench on it, put it on the ground, stood on the stock, and crack!  It came out.  I don't know what size the breech plug was, but I used an 11 mm socket.

It seems like sabotloader said he used teflon tape on his breech plug.  I might have to try it.  

I like the idea of taking off the stock and putting hot water on the end.

[Sabotloader]

You will need a 7/16" deep socket for the Knight BP...

I use a 1/4" drive ratchet socket and extension...

So, I've seen a number of comments on here by guys who use plumbers tape on their breech pugs and nipples.

I quit using grease on BP years ago- using Teflon tape is a whole bunch easier to clean.  I do however continue to use grease on the nipple threads, they are not as apt to seize as the breech plug.

I'm just curious how it does for preventing seizing?  I was told when I started that you wanted to use Super Lube or something similar on your breech plug and nipple to prevent them from seizing up from the recoil.  I like the idea of the plumbers tape, but am concerned about causing other issues.

BP seizing is normally caused by blow back pushing burnt materials back into the threads of the BP.  If you seat the BP correctly… nose of the BP to the shelf in the barrel you have a great chance of stopping the gas right at the nose of the BP.  I use the tape to help insure the gas is stopped on the nose of the breech plug.

This drawing is an attempt to explain what and how I seal the plug off.  I also think it is important to snug the pug up against the barrel shelf to squeeze the tape but not so tight that it tears the tape. Most importantly do not leave it loose or back-it-off a bit as is often suggested.

 

Here is an old pictorial of wrapping a plug.  I also should tell you most often the tape does not come back out if the gun intact on the BP as the last picture shows.  You will need a bore brush inserted into the breech threads  and then turned counter clockwise to pull the old tape out.



This is probably a better picture set…

[jbeaumont21]

Hey Dan, next time go over to Michael's. He has a bench vice to put the barrel in with a nice piece of rubber automotive hose to wrap around it.  I have had to do that at least 6-7 times. 

Next time try tightening down the breech plug real tight so that is creates a good seal like sabbotloader suggests.  I have had better luck breaking it free on my own by doing that the last few times.  My mother-in-law has a bench vice she will give to me, I just need to go get it. Then we wont have to bug Michael.

[Sabotloader]

Found another thread answer... sorry some of it is repetitive!

Do you tape instead of greasing the plug?

I'm new to muzzle loaders

Ya know... I actually answered this a little earlier got it already to post - and pushed the wrong dang button - gone all gone.

So here we go again...

I do tape instead greasing.  I started greasing at first and swiched right after to tape at the suggestion of another forum member - Underclocked.  He suggested the tape.

One thing also after many years of doing this - I also believe the BP should be turned in and seated snug - not really tight but snug... Snug enough to squeeze the tape but not so tight to crush or tear it.  Finger tight or backed out a bit is does not work for me...

This drawing done for me by underclocked with my explanation might help you understand what I am trying to say...



I really believe if you get the face of the breech snug against the shelf in the barrel blow by gasses will be stopped there and not reach the threads of the BP or Barrel.  If you look down the bore with a pin light you will see the shelf that I am referring to.  It is important that this shelf be cleaned of carbon and grease. nice and shiny just like the end of your BP...

Here is a picture you can see the shelf and the fact it still needs to be cleaned... you can see in the bootom pictures where I flushed it off.



Teflon taping a plug... There is a method and it really does take some time to perfectthe wrap unless you are a plumber... they can do it in their sleep.

Here are couple of pictures that show the wrapping process...  Make SURE you overwrap the nose of the plug then push it down over the nose and into the flash hole cavity.





Wrapping the plug - you see two different colors of tape.  The pink tape is a little thicker than the white tape and really prefer to use the pink tape, but you gun will detirmine that depending how tight the plug is or fits in the breech plug port in the barrel.  One key when turning the tape in is that it turns in easy and smoothly.  Make sure to press the tape into the treads of the breech plug so when you are turning it in the port threads so not tear and cause the tape to pull and ball up.  To help this you may have to clean the old carbon and grease from the port threads.  Cleaning them once and using tape will make it so you should not have to clean them very often again.

After all of this if you are going to try this method it would be my suggestion that after you have taped the plug apply a very light coat of grease to the outside of the tape.  Then at the range loosen the or just barely "crack" the BP after 10 or 15 shots.  If you choose to go with bare teflon - crack the plug after 5-7 shots and re-snug it.

At this point I just wrap and shoot.... on a few occasions when I do not get the plug in just right it does get hard to realease after 30-40 shots.  Also you can check your job after installing by shining the pin light down the barrel and see if yu see tape all the way around the bottom of the bore.

Ask more questions if my explanation is not clear - I am not the best writer or written explainer in the world...

mike

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Im gonna try that! Thanks.

[kerrdog]

Thanks everyone.  I'm gonna try the teflon tape for sure.

[Sabotloader]

Both or all... If you were to try this taping method... make sure the threads in the breech are clean before inserting the newly wrapped plug and screw the plug in slowly so you can feel if it binds up.

Also until you get the real hang of it you might put a very light coat of grease on the outside of the plug... LIGHT coat.

Also just to make me feel better until you are confident crack the plug open - just a crack every 10 shots and then snug it back up... Not real tight just snug to squeeze the tape not cut it or crush it.

Most ofte nt the white tape will remain in the bore threads when you remove the plug... you will need a breech brush to get the old teflon out..

This is what I use to clean the BP Bore threads  - rotating in reverse so as to pull the stuf out of BP..

[kerrdog]

I love the drill idea.

[jbeaumont21]

Hey Mike,

What is that brush made of?  It doesn't look like copper.  Is it a steel brush? What size?

Thanks,

Jesse

[Sabotloader]

Hey Mike,

What is that brush made of?  It doesn't look like copper.  Is it a steel brush? What size?

Thanks,

Jesse

No it is a Montana X-Treme fiber brush.... I seldom if ever use a brass brush...

http://www.montanaxtreme.com/products/?id=16&product=Brushes

On the list of brushes it is the 20 guage brush but if you use this one you need an adapter to getr from 10/32 to the brush tread size.. You can see the adapter in the picture...

[Griiz]

I haven't had any problem getting my plug out since I started using anti-seize lubricant. Been using it for 7-8 years.

[jbeaumont21]

Hey Mike,

What is that brush made of?  It doesn't look like copper.  Is it a steel brush? What size?

Thanks,

Jesse

No it is a Montana X-Treme fiber brush.... I seldom if ever use a brass brush...

http://www.montanaxtreme.com/products/?id=16&product=Brushes

On the list of brushes it is the 20 guage brush but if you use this one you need an adapter to getr from 10/32 to the brush tread size.. You can see the adapter in the picture...

I see they make one for a 50 cal muzzle loader.  Do you not use that one?

https://www.westernpowders.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=64_73

[Sabotloader]

Hey Mike,

What is that brush made of?  It doesn't look like copper.  Is it a steel brush? What size?

Thanks,

Jesse

No it is a Montana X-Treme fiber brush.... I seldom if ever use a brass brush...

http://www.montanaxtreme.com/products/?id=16&product=Brushes

On the list of brushes it is the 20 guage brush but if you use this one you need an adapter to getr from 10/32 to the brush tread size.. You can see the adapter in the picture...

I see they make one for a 50 cal muzzle loader.  Do you not use that one?

https://www.westernpowders.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=64_73

I do have one but you need a slightly larger one for the breech plug hole - although the 50 could work...

[kevinmeister]

I had the same trouble but don't have any issue any more.  I learned that when tightening it, you don't have to crank it down.  Just turn it until it barely snugs and that is it.  There are enough threads on the plug that you don't have to worry about it.  Just barely tight and then it will come out every time.  I don't think tape is necessary if you do as I say above.  I was shooting my disc extreme a lot before last season and never had a problem after I learned to barely snug it down.  Good luck. 

[Sabotloader]

I had the same trouble but don't have any issue any more.  I learned that when tightening it, you don't have to crank it down.  Just turn it until it barely snugs and that is it.  There are enough threads on the plug that you don't have to worry about it.  Just barely tight and then it will come out every time.  I don't think tape is necessary if you do as I say above.  I was shooting my disc extreme a lot before last season and never had a problem after I learned to barely snug it down.  Good luck.

I personally believe you have made the correct decision when it comes to installing the BP - snug to the BP shelf in the bore.  Maybe a little more snug to the shelf if you are not protecting the threads. 

My self - i would never trust it without tape or grease for an extended range session shooting T7.  I am not sure about the Pyros or real BP because I do not know abouttheir ability to seize like T7 can.