E-mail from WDFW

[Northway]

Northway I see what you are saying, maybe that is a good angle to work on. I guess it depends if the land grant gave them ownership of the property. There was land granted to homesteaders that became private land and much is still private today. If the railroads were granted full ownership then they have property rights.

If they have full property rights, instead of trying to trample their property rights and setting a very bad precedent, why not look at other options to keep the land opened up to hunting?

Weyerhauser is doing business for a profit. Why not get WDFW / legislators to work out a deal to purchase a conservation/recreational easement to all Weyerhauser lands. Conservation Northwest is buying conservation easements in Eastern Washington from ranchers. The way I understand it ranchers agree to never break up the property for development and get a nice amount for it. They can still ranch, hunt, and pass it on to their kids, but it must stay in one parcel and not be sub-divided or developed. On Weyerhauser lands this would be a win/win for all users, WH still gets to log, and the public still has access.

Yeah, buying conservation easements will probably be the most effective method. CNW doesn't have deep enough pockets to get into the arena of protecting entire tree farms. Those kind of deals usually involve multiple parties and some sort of participation by government.

[bearpaw]

Northway I see what you are saying, maybe that is a good angle to work on. I guess it depends if the land grant gave them ownership of the property. There was land granted to homesteaders that became private land and much is still private today. If the railroads were granted full ownership then they have property rights.

If they have full property rights, instead of trying to trample their property rights and setting a very bad precedent, why not look at other options to keep the land opened up to hunting?

Weyerhauser is doing business for a profit. Why not get WDFW / legislators to work out a deal to purchase a conservation/recreational easement to all Weyerhauser lands. Conservation Northwest is buying conservation easements in Eastern Washington from ranchers. The way I understand it ranchers agree to never break up the property for development and get a nice amount for it. They can still ranch, hunt, and pass it on to their kids, but it must stay in one parcel and not be sub-divided or developed. On Weyerhauser lands this would be a win/win for all users, WH still gets to log, and the public still has access.

Yeah, buying conservation easements will probably be the most effective method. CNW doesn't have deep enough pockets to get into the arena of protecting entire tree farms. Those kind of deals usually involve multiple parties and some sort of participation by government.

I am thinking we need to convince WDFW to lobby the legislature on this. An unusual partnership could be created because all residents of the state would benefit from a conservation easement with Weyerhauser. There are many ways this could be done if people are willing to be resourceful in their thinking. 

[6x6in6]

Don't me squat? I'm sorry, but I don't speak Ebonics and can't figure out a lot of what you're saying.

As far as proving to you that we pay for their deduction, I can't.

Ebonics or not, you answered it.
Thanks! 

[pianoman9701]

Don't me squat? I'm sorry, but I don't speak Ebonics and can't figure out a lot of what you're saying.

As far as proving to you that we pay for their deduction, I can't.

Ebonics or not, you answered it.
Thanks!

I get it now. You're a logger, aren't you?

[6x6in6]

Don't me squat? I'm sorry, but I don't speak Ebonics and can't figure out a lot of what you're saying.

As far as proving to you that we pay for their deduction, I can't.

Ebonics or not, you answered it.
Thanks!

I get it now. You're a logger, aren't you?

Worse, I work for a developer who is a rather large landholder and who loves to do property tax appeals.   

[6x6in6]

Don't me squat? I'm sorry, but I don't speak Ebonics and can't figure out a lot of what you're saying.

As far as proving to you that we pay for their deduction, I can't.

Ebonics or not, you answered it.
Thanks!

I get it now. You're a logger, aren't you?

Worse, I work for a developer who is a rather large landholder and who loves to do property tax appeals.   

And just to clarify, all of his LLC's are sole entity corporations. 

[pianoman9701]

Making a lot more sense now. Thanks back at ya.

[Wenatcheejay]

I think the problem at large is that the current culture is anti-human. It is pro-self sustaining ecosystem. By self sustaning I mean no access.

The second problem is entitlement. Hunters feel entitled to the land that publicly owned game is on be it private, State, Federal, Native, or Chinese. The landowner sees the game as theirs, and the Government panders to the anti-human crowd while suckering money from the Hunting public and the landowners, all the while pitting them all against each other.

 

The only final solution is to go vegan.

[Atroxus]

Northway I see what you are saying, maybe that is a good angle to work on. I guess it depends if the land grant gave them ownership of the property. There was land granted to homesteaders that became private land and much is still private today. If the railroads were granted full ownership then they have property rights.

If they have full property rights, instead of trying to trample their property rights and setting a very bad precedent, why not look at other options to keep the land opened up to hunting?

Weyerhauser is doing business for a profit. Why not get WDFW / legislators to work out a deal to purchase a conservation/recreational easement to all Weyerhauser lands. Conservation Northwest is buying conservation easements in Eastern Washington from ranchers. The way I understand it ranchers agree to never break up the property for development and get a nice amount for it. They can still ranch, hunt, and pass it on to their kids, but it must stay in one parcel and not be sub-divided or developed. On Weyerhauser lands this would be a win/win for all users, WH still gets to log, and the public still has access.

Yeah, buying conservation easements will probably be the most effective method. CNW doesn't have deep enough pockets to get into the arena of protecting entire tree farms. Those kind of deals usually involve multiple parties and some sort of participation by government.

I am thinking we need to convince WDFW to lobby the legislature on this. An unusual partnership could be created because all residents of the state would benefit from a conservation easement with Weyerhauser. There are many ways this could be done if people are willing to be resourceful in their thinking. 

I think there is a simple solution that several people have hit on already. See if we can leverage WDFW into making timber co damage permits(for that matter, all damage permits) contingent on allowing public hunting access free of charge. Pretty sure if they had a choice of eating the wildlife damage, or opening up their land for hunting access they would not have to think about it at all. I bet they would lose more money in one year of un-checked bear damage than they would make in access fees. 

[pianoman9701]

I think the problem at large is that the current culture is anti-human. It is pro-self sustaining ecosystem. By self sustaning I mean no access.

The second problem is entitlement. Hunters feel entitled to the land that publicly owned game is on be it private, State, Federal, Native, or Chinese. The landowner sees the game as theirs, and the Government panders to the anti-human crowd while suckering money from the Hunting public and the landowners, all the while pitting them all against each other.

 

The only final solution is to go vegan.

I disagree completely. I don't feel entitled to any private land which isn't mine. Private landowners should be able to do what they want regardless of my hunting desires, the greenies, or a freakin gopher who happens to be living on it. What I am entitled to is fair laws and their application. When I take a deduction for something on my tax returns, I'd better damned well have earned it. The same goes for others, be they businesses or individuals. If Weyerhaeuser wants the recreational tax exemption, they need to offer recreational use - it's very plain and simple.

[Wenatcheejay]

I think the problem at large is that the current culture is anti-human. It is pro-self sustaining ecosystem. By self sustaning I mean no access.

The second problem is entitlement. Hunters feel entitled to the land that publicly owned game is on be it private, State, Federal, Native, or Chinese. The landowner sees the game as theirs, and the Government panders to the anti-human crowd while suckering money from the Hunting public and the landowners, all the while pitting them all against each other.

 

The only final solution is to go vegan.

I disagree completely. I don't feel entitled to any private land which isn't mine. Private landowners should be able to do what they want regardless of my hunting desires, the greenies, or a freakin gopher who happens to be living on it. What I am entitled to is fair laws and their application. When I take a deduction for something on my tax returns, I'd better damned well have earned it. The same goes for others, be they businesses or individuals. If Weyerhaeuser wants the recreational tax exemption, they need to offer recreational use - it's very plain and simple.

But, you have morals & ethics.

The world is selfish, and vegans should be hunted.

[pianoman9701]

I think the problem at large is that the current culture is anti-human. It is pro-self sustaining ecosystem. By self sustaning I mean no access.

The second problem is entitlement. Hunters feel entitled to the land that publicly owned game is on be it private, State, Federal, Native, or Chinese. The landowner sees the game as theirs, and the Government panders to the anti-human crowd while suckering money from the Hunting public and the landowners, all the while pitting them all against each other.

 

The only final solution is to go vegan.

I disagree completely. I don't feel entitled to any private land which isn't mine. Private landowners should be able to do what they want regardless of my hunting desires, the greenies, or a freakin gopher who happens to be living on it. What I am entitled to is fair laws and their application. When I take a deduction for something on my tax returns, I'd better damned well have earned it. The same goes for others, be they businesses or individuals. If Weyerhaeuser wants the recreational tax exemption, they need to offer recreational use - it's very plain and simple.

But, you have morals & ethics.

The world is selfish, and vegans should be hunted.

They're not worthy of my skills to kill. I hunt nothing that whines incessantly.

[bearpaw]

I think the problem at large is that the current culture is anti-human. It is pro-self sustaining ecosystem. By self sustaning I mean no access.

The second problem is entitlement. Hunters feel entitled to the land that publicly owned game is on be it private, State, Federal, Native, or Chinese. The landowner sees the game as theirs, and the Government panders to the anti-human crowd while suckering money from the Hunting public and the landowners, all the while pitting them all against each other.

 

The only final solution is to go vegan.

I disagree completely. I don't feel entitled to any private land which isn't mine. Private landowners should be able to do what they want regardless of my hunting desires, the greenies, or a freakin gopher who happens to be living on it. What I am entitled to is fair laws and their application. When I take a deduction for something on my tax returns, I'd better damned well have earned it. The same goes for others, be they businesses or individuals. If Weyerhaeuser wants the recreational tax exemption, they need to offer recreational use - it's very plain and simple.

Recreational tax exemption, exactly what are you talking about?

[pianoman9701]

I think the problem at large is that the current culture is anti-human. It is pro-self sustaining ecosystem. By self sustaning I mean no access.

The second problem is entitlement. Hunters feel entitled to the land that publicly owned game is on be it private, State, Federal, Native, or Chinese. The landowner sees the game as theirs, and the Government panders to the anti-human crowd while suckering money from the Hunting public and the landowners, all the while pitting them all against each other.

 

The only final solution is to go vegan.

I disagree completely. I don't feel entitled to any private land which isn't mine. Private landowners should be able to do what they want regardless of my hunting desires, the greenies, or a freakin gopher who happens to be living on it. What I am entitled to is fair laws and their application. When I take a deduction for something on my tax returns, I'd better damned well have earned it. The same goes for others, be they businesses or individuals. If Weyerhaeuser wants the recreational tax exemption, they need to offer recreational use - it's very plain and simple.

Recreational tax exemption, exactly what are you talking about?

Recreational use. C'mon BP, you've been in the discussion for a while.

[M_ray]

Pianoman as Bearpaw pointed out you can do the same ... Buy a bunch of land and do not develop it ... you will pay less taxes than my developed land with buildings and improvements. No where does it say cause you pay less I'm entitled to hunt on your place ... It's  really not that hard to understand??? 

What people are missing here is that Weyerhauser isn't doing this to punish you or create revenue (so sorry Bob your not going to get more permits) what they are trying to do is limit the access so they can monitor the damage to their land. Believe it or not they pay Millions a year to fix graders, machinery and trucks that are shot up by guns. They haul hundreds of thousands pounds of garbage out of the woods at their expense, then there are those who steel firewood cutting down potential future profit from the tree taken and the cost of stolen tolls and equipment and fuel. Limiting the access is also a revenue stream of savings that they wont have to spend on clean up and new equipment as well as elevated insurance premiums.
  It's been over ten years probably closer to 20 since they closed Grass Mountain road out of Enumclaw so Bob don't worry I don't think they are on a fast track to shut you out of every area. My bet is they do it to the areas most affected and that cost them the most to maintain.