CA Gun Control Bill Passes - $50 Ammo Background Check Fee

[pianoman9701]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/29/california-senate-passes-gun-control-bills/2370541/

Measures would ban detachable and large-capacity magazines, and also require background checks to buy or sell ammunition.

Spurred by mass shootings in Connecticut, Colorado and Arizona, the California Senate on Wednesday approved seven bills to tighten regulations on guns and ammunition.

The measures would:

• Outlaw detachable magazines in rifles and so-called button bottoms;

• Prohibit magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition;

• Require background checks for all buyers and sellers of ammunition;

• Reclassify certain shotguns as assault weapons;

• Require all gun buyers to take a firearm-safety certificate class;

• Expand crimes that would result in a 10-year ban on owning or buying firearms. Additions include drug- and alcohol-related offenses, hazing, violations of protective orders and court-ordered mental health treatment.

The legislation cleared the Democratic-controlled chamber on party-line votes. All Republicans voted against the measures; four Democrats voted against the ammunition background checks.

The bills move to the Assembly, which is also controlled by Democrats.

"We all can recite the horrific acts that have occurred in our country over the last year," said Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg, a Democrat representing Sacramento. "These bills attempt to respond to those well-publicized tragedies and many more that go unpublicized."

Background checks for ammunition is one of the most controversial measures. Here's how the Los Angeles Times summarizes it:


Californians who want to buy ammunition, and the vendors who sell it, would have to submit personal information for a background check to determine whether they have a criminal record, severe mental illness or a restraining order that would disqualify them from owning guns. Vendors would have to get permits starting July 1, 2015, and purchasers starting two years later. ...

Ammunition purchasers would submit their information and a $50 fee to the state Department of Justice which would maintain a list of qualified buyers that would be checked by ammo stores. Purchasers would have to show their driver's license or other ID at the time they buy bullets.

Republican Sen. Jim Nielsen of Gerber said his colleagues were "criminalizing legal, historic behavior in the state of California and putting onerous burdens and regulations and requirements on law-abiding citizens."

One Democrat who also opposed the bill cited the constitutional right to own a gun.

"Implied in that is the right to buy the ammo to go with it," Sen. Roderick Wright of Inglewood.

In early May, Gov. Jerry Brown signed an eighth gun-control bill, SB 140. It boosts funding to confiscate guns from people who have criminal pasts or are mentally ill.

[Maligator]

Not gonna find me living in THAT state!!!

Not to worry though, soon enough they will drive away all the viable businesses, law abiding Citizens & be left with criminals, illegals & a bankrupt state 

[snowpack]

When folks say that the 'slippery slope' argument is irrelevant regarding that last round of proposals, I just remind them of California and New York.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 Amazingly Brown has been known to veto stuff like this on occasion, but since it will bring in $$$$$$$$ I doubt it

[nocklehead]

In the 2A, the word ARMS means armaments, which bullets and gunpowder are. People in the NRA especially, need to actively push to get ALL personal armaments BACK in the hands of the PEOPLE.

Another example is the city of Seattle, where one cant legally carry a blade more than 3.5 inches long, however most dont see this as a violation of 2A.

Wheres the push to get automatics back?

Another would be suppressors or silencers, where is the push to allow any PERSON (as in Blacks Law- def.1 : A human being)
to purchase or build one? I just dont see it....

There SHOULD be such a push to restore the REAL 2A, that things like magazines on little black rifles arent even an issue. The "left" should be so overwhelmed by bills being introduced to allow RPGs, grenades, exotic weapons, etc. that even attempting to mess with .223s would seem ludicrous.

Could "the people" defeat the British military these days?

Unfortunately, most 2A supporters still have some control freak, statist views....such as thinking that 18 yr olds (who are PEOPLE) shouldnt be allowed to buy a handgun, or that gov. background checks on arms are somehow constitutional.

[pianoman9701]

Yeah, you should probably fight all of the pro-2A people who aren't for legalizing personal use of artillery. The antis love this stuff. They just sit back and watch as any kind of cohesion dissolves because nuts start pointing fingers at people on the same side of the fence instead of concentrating on the Diane Feinkensteins of this world. Try getting a clue as to whom you should be attacking and opposing in this battle. This is exactly like bow hunters going after modern hunters while the wolf lovers sit back and take it all in.

[nocklehead]

Yeah, you should probably fight all of the pro-2A people who aren't for legalizing personal use of artillery. The antis love this stuff. They just sit back and watch as any kind of cohesion dissolves because nuts start pointing fingers at people on the same side of the fence instead of concentrating on the Diane Feinkensteins of this world. Try getting a clue as to whom you should be attacking and opposing in this battle. This is exactly like bow hunters going after modern hunters while the wolf lovers sit back and take it all in.

I thought you have me set to ignore PM?  hmmm, well, I guess you lied.
 It seems you are the one who wants to fight, instead of opening your mind, and call names such as nuts, and clueless.
Im happy to debate the constitution any day with you PM, just try to keep your immature statements to yourself, it muddys up the waters for all parties involved.
It seems youre version of 'right wing' is somewhere near the 5 yard line, of the leftwings endzone.

Which makes me genuinely curious as to what YOUR personal vision of a republic respecting its 2A would look like and what regulations you would want imposed on others with threat of force?

[Bean Counter]

I really don't have much sympathy for the gun owners and hunters who continue to support that state by living and hunting in it. 

I may even stop driving the pacific coast highway whenever I road trip up to WA. I already fill up my gas tank just outside that state on both ends just on principal.

[nocklehead]

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A free people ought to be armed."
- George Washington

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson

"Im quite sure the founders meant ALL guns and ammunition, especially those also used by British armies...to call the redcoats allies whilst their people are disarmed and the monarchy continues is an abomination of everything we've fought for."
-Nocklehead

[pianoman9701]

Yeah, you should probably fight all of the pro-2A people who aren't for legalizing personal use of artillery. The antis love this stuff. They just sit back and watch as any kind of cohesion dissolves because nuts start pointing fingers at people on the same side of the fence instead of concentrating on the Diane Feinkensteins of this world. Try getting a clue as to whom you should be attacking and opposing in this battle. This is exactly like bow hunters going after modern hunters while the wolf lovers sit back and take it all in.

I thought you have me set to ignore PM?  hmmm, well, I guess you lied.
 It seems you are the one who wants to fight, instead of opening your mind, and call names such as nuts, and clueless.
Im happy to debate the constitution any day with you PM, just try to keep your immature statements to yourself, it muddys up the waters for all parties involved.
It seems youre version of 'right wing' is somewhere near the 5 yard line, of the leftwings endzone.

Which makes me genuinely curious as to what YOUR personal vision of a republic respecting its 2A would look like and what regulations you would want imposed on others with threat of force?

Unfortunately, I'm a moderator on this board and have to read your paranoid and rambling posts. Go too far over the line and I'll remove them or you.

[nocklehead]

So not just the second amendment, but free speech bothers you as well?
I havent crossed any "line" Pman, if I have, please inform us all what it is.....I think youre really shining a light on yourself. were just having a conversation with no profanity, you attack me, call me names, and threaten to ban me??
Whats your deal? Why do you want everyone fitting in your neat little box? Is this Korea? You cant even debate without going there? pretty sad IMO.

[pianoman9701]

I was wrong to mix moderation with personal opinions.

My personal opinion Knocklhead is that you need to pick your fights and choose your partners. You need to know who your enemies are, and you need to stick to the people who have like views.  Turning against the people who are on the same side of the issue as you is crazy. I believe that you should focus on those who oppose you. Sportsman in general tend to be very fragmented. We go off into these micro groups like Archery and muzzleloading and modern, and forget that we're in the same flight. Unity is the only thing that will help us beat the people who are trying to take away our rights.

[nocklehead]

I was wrong to mix moderation with personal opinions.

My personal opinion Knocklhead is that you need to pick your fights and choose your partners. You need to know who your enemies are, and you need to stick to the people who have like views.  Turning against the people who are on the same side of the issue as you is crazy. I believe that you should focus on those who oppose you. Sportsman in general tend to be very fragmented. We go off into these micro groups like Archery and muzzleloading and modern, and forget that we're in the same flight. Unity is the only thing that will help us beat the people who are trying to take away our rights.

I wasnt trying to pick any fights, I was merely trying to point out that the reason anti gun people can even attempt to getaway with this is due to our present interpretation of the constitution.
I do absolutely think the word "arms" in 2A was meant to include blades, swords, gunpowder, lead and lead casting supplies, canons,  etc. etc.
While in a modern sense, the 2A does ALLOW for artillery lets say, the times when its use would be legal and justifiable by the people acting as an organized militia are rare.

I believe the easiest way to reverse whats happening in places like CA, is to clearly state, as a collective, that bullets and gunpowder, brass, and reloading supplies, these things are all our "ARMS". We can not passively state these things either, although its only right to use a gun in defense, when it comes to legal support of 2A, we need to be on the offense.
"We" should be the ones constantly trying to ram legislation down "their" throats.

I will say though that education and patience is the best way to deal with antis, take a liberal shooting, give them deer meat, and talk about guns naturally around them, whatever it takes to peacefully make them see your side of things...we need to remember they are human too, and show them so are we.

[csaaphill]

So not just the second amendment, but free speech bothers you as well?
I havent crossed any "line" Pman, if I have, please inform us all what it is.....I think youre really shining a light on yourself. were just having a conversation with no profanity, you attack me, call me names, and threaten to ban me??
Whats your deal? Why do you want everyone fitting in your neat little box? Is this Korea? You cant even debate without going there? pretty sad IMO.

well for waht it's worth i liked your quotes

[bearpaw]

I was wrong to mix moderation with personal opinions.

My personal opinion Knocklhead is that you need to pick your fights and choose your partners. You need to know who your enemies are, and you need to stick to the people who have like views.  Turning against the people who are on the same side of the issue as you is crazy. I believe that you should focus on those who oppose you. Sportsman in general tend to be very fragmented. We go off into these micro groups like Archery and muzzleloading and modern, and forget that we're in the same flight. Unity is the only thing that will help us beat the people who are trying to take away our rights.

I wasnt trying to pick any fights, I was merely trying to point out that the reason anti gun people can even attempt to getaway with this is due to our present interpretation of the constitution.
I do absolutely think the word "arms" in 2A was meant to include blades, swords, gunpowder, lead and lead casting supplies, canons,  etc. etc.
While in a modern sense, the 2A does ALLOW for artillery lets say, the times when its use would be legal and justifiable by the people acting as an organized militia are rare.

I believe the easiest way to reverse whats happening in places like CA, is to clearly state, as a collective, that bullets and gunpowder, brass, and reloading supplies, these things are all our "ARMS". We can not passively state these things either, although its only right to use a gun in defense, when it comes to legal support of 2A, we need to be on the offense.
"We" should be the ones constantly trying to ram legislation down "their" throats.

I will say though that education and patience is the best way to deal with antis, take a liberal shooting, give them deer meat, and talk about guns naturally around them, whatever it takes to peacefully make them see your side of things...we need to remember they are human too, and show them so are we.

I think if we combined both of you guys points we'd have a winning plan. 

[csaaphill]

whos got a great big saw and we'll saw them off the main land.

[nocklehead]

whos got a great big saw and we'll saw them off the main land.

Hey the Sierra Nevada's got lots of wild game, Ive never seen more turkeys in one area! Some big ol' deer too! We only need to saw off the coast and southern cali! I prefer a peaceful takeover though, after all, we're the armed hunters. 

[huntrights]

 

The California legislature has gone over the top with their continual flood of anti-gun and anti-hunting legislation.  Many people in that state have been brainwashed with so much anti-gun and anti-hunting propaganda that they have unfortunately elected state and local representation that has lost touch with the Constitution and Bill of Rights and why it is the foundation of our freedom.  New York and some other states appear to be equally as bad.

We're all very passionate about fighting against the extremist views and actions of the anti-gun and anti-hunting crowd.  Because of the intensity of our commitment to defend and protect our rights and freedoms, it is understandable that some disagreements may arise among those of us that are very much on the same side in many of the challenges we have faced together.  The political world is a tricky place; much of our success in keeping the rights and freedoms we cherish depends on our commitment and resolve to work together on the major issues with an understanding that we may still have some differences in our individual opinions.  If we open our minds, we can learn a great deal from those differences. 

We have many political and cultural challenges ahead.  We need to fight against immediate legislative threats in addition to educating the general public with facts about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights; we are a free people for a reason.  People need to know that hunting is conservation and that hunting and hunters are the primary reasons the United States has one of the most envied and successful wildlife management models in the world. 

We must work together and continue to get others engaged if we are to avoid becoming another anti-gun/anti-hunting state like California.