bow suddenly shooting 6 inches high...? (updated)

[vandeman17]

My dad is starting to freak out a little bit. He has been shooting a bunch and had his bow all dialed in all the way out to 50 yards. He shot two nights ago and sent me the pictures of his 20-40 yard groups and they all were tight and looking good. He went out yesterday morning to shoot and his first shot at 30 yards airmailed the target and his next two barely hit the top. He tested it and all his pins are at least 6 inches high now. He hasn't dropped the bow or done anything different. Any thoughts?

[Jonathan_S]

D-Loop slid down?  If the serving was starting to slip or the D-Loop is failing, I would guess that?

[jaymark6655]

Sometimes sights can loosen up enough and shift, just from shooting or the peep could have shifted.

[blackveltbowhunter]

    I would check my peep first. Make sure there is no movement. Very slight differences in peep location will be obvious on the range. 

[dreamunelk]

Form?

Usually is my issue when there are sudden changes.

[vandeman17]

Form?

Usually is my issue when there are sudden changes.

He said he felt good on all his shots and after the first one air mailing the target he really focused and made sure his anchor point and form were all the same.

[BULLBLASTER]

If nothing was changed with the bow then all that is left is the shooter. I have seen many times where relative beginners will unknowingly change their form and curse the bow for being off. Most times I have noticed it is due to bow fit... draw weight or draw length not fitting the shooter.
Not to say something hasn't moved... but sights and rests and peeps don't adjustment themselves in the bow case.

[Fowlweather25]

Sounds like peep travel to me.

[vandeman17]

If nothing was changed with the bow then all that is left is the shooter. I have seen many times where relative beginners will unknowingly change their form and curse the bow for being off. Most times I have noticed it is due to bow fit... draw weight or draw length not fitting the shooter.
Not to say something hasn't moved... but sights and rests and peeps don't adjustment themselves in the bow case.

I would tend to agree but his was still getting tight groups but they were all high and with all his pins. It just sounds too much like something changed with his bow and not his form. If he went sporadic or something then I could see it was form but who the heck knows... 

[wildmanoutdoors]

Spuadic placed shots on my bow means its out of time. This doesent sound like the case here though.

[BULLBLASTER]

Did he change anything else? Wearing glasses or sunglasses? Contacts? Sometimes just how your eye lines up the peep and sight housing that day can affect. Or a minor change in anchor point (release hand on face or string on nose). My best advice would be just move the sight and keep shooting. Is the peep slightly large compared with the pin guard? Mine is that way to allow more light but I have to be very careful with alignment and centering the guard or I will be off a bit.

[vandeman17]

Did he change anything else? Wearing glasses or sunglasses? Contacts? Sometimes just how your eye lines up the peep and sight housing that day can affect. Or a minor change in anchor point (release hand on face or string on nose). My best advice would be just move the sight and keep shooting. Is the peep slightly large compared with the pin guard? Mine is that way to allow more light but I have to be very careful with alignment and centering the guard or I will be off a bit.

I asked him the same thing. He is very particular about everything he does so after getting his bow set up and given a few lessons on how to shoot, he makes sure that with every shot he does everything exactly the same. I told him to talk to the bow shop and see if they can see anything that might have changed with the bow, peep, sight, etc before he changed anything. I am hoping the peep slid just a bit and that it will be a quick fix because he was shooting really good up until this and had a lot of confidence going.

[jaymark6655]

If nothing was changed with the bow then all that is left is the shooter. I have seen many times where relative beginners will unknowingly change their form and curse the bow for being off. Most times I have noticed it is due to bow fit... draw weight or draw length not fitting the shooter.
Not to say something hasn't moved... but sights and rests and peeps don't adjustment themselves in the bow case.

If screws holding the sight where lose, just him picking it up or his last shot could have cause the whole sight to shift slightly down.  Then his point of aim and impact would be higher and with each shot the sight would slip a little lower causing each shot to be even higher.  When I shot a lot, first three shots on a group where dead on.  Next shot hit the target barely at the top.  I thought maybe I messed up my form or something, so I shot one more and my sight feel off the bow.  Bows have a lot of vibration and stuff can come loose from just shooting it.

[BULLBLASTER]

Very true jaymark... I was assuming ( I know what happens when you assume)  that the shooter in this case had checked the sight and rest screws.  And he said they were all grouping well just 6 inches high.

[vandeman17]

He did say that he checked everything and couldn't see anything that was loose or wrong...

[bearpaw]

It could be any of the things mentioned. If he is sure he is keeping the same exact anchor point then move the whole sight slightly so all the pins move as needed. Just be sure he is keeping the same anchor point and that the sights and peep are all solid tight and not loose. Have him continue shooting, it might not be a problem again. 

[D-Rock425]

What type of rest does he shoot?

[et1702]

Have him knock and arrow and see if it's still approx 90 degrees from string.  Sounds like D-loop slipped, or peep sight moved.  Otherwise, he may think he's anchoring the same, but he's not!

BTW, did you guys pick up the Oregon Eagle Caps drop camp trip?  If so, good luck and let me know how you do. 

Also, if Dad's over here on west side, I'd be happy for him to come over and I can watch him shoot and maybe help w/issue.

Take care,

ET

[vandeman17]

Have him knock and arrow and see if it's still approx 90 degrees from string.  Sounds like D-loop slipped, or peep sight moved.  Otherwise, he may think he's anchoring the same, but he's not!

BTW, did you guys pick up the Oregon Eagle Caps drop camp trip?  If so, good luck and let me know how you do. 

Also, if Dad's over here on west side, I'd be happy for him to come over and I can watch him shoot and maybe help w/issue.

Take care,

ET

I will talk to him more tonight and see what the bow shop says and try to do some trouble shooting. I really think it is either the peep or the d loop but we will see.

He actually lives down in Redmond Oregon but thanks for the offer! 

[pianoman9701]

All of the above - D-Ring, tight sight, arrow rest, peep sight. Is it possible he banged it or one of the cables came out of the separator? Is something stuck in a pulley, like a twig? Is something hitting the string?

[vandeman17]

All of the above - D-Ring, tight sight, arrow rest, peep sight. Is it possible he banged it or one of the cables came out of the separator? Is something stuck in a pulley, like a twig? Is something hitting the string?

He is really careful with his bow. He sets it down in the same place every time he shoots and makes sure not to bang it around at all. I wish I was closer so I could watch him shoot and see

[cocogirl]

I can't assume anything about the shooter as I haven't seen him shoot. If he is sure that he isn't doing anything different then we have to double check the bow. It sounds like he is experienced enough to know if he is doing something wrong.
Yes, it could be a sight that has loosened up or any number of things that have loosened on his bow. If the sight hasn't moved and he is sure of it, then it only leaves one thing. His nocking point has lowered by something on the arrow rest, peep, d-loop or string. String stretch, peep moving up, d-loop down, arrow rest changed. Each of these can cause several issues, cams out of time, depending on which cam can cause high arrow flight. Simplicity of a bow, if it shoots high and nothing has change from the shooter or the sights, then it is the nock point in someway.
Have him focus on the things that can and do effect it.
Should be able to identify the issue in a short time.
Hope that helps and he gets it going again shortly, mostly just tell him don't get upset with it. It happens and just needs figured out and fixed. I think it can, has or will happen to everyone that ever shoots a bow, something will change and we just fix it. That is what makes it so much fun.
Now if everything checks out on the bow, then need to really double check the form but nothing is unfixable. Just find it and then we fix it.
Normally in a case like that it is something simple and when we figure it out, we end up shaking our heads at ourselves, laughing and getting after it again.
Good luck on hunting to both of you this year.

[vandeman17]

I can't assume anything about the shooter as I haven't seen him shoot. If he is sure that he isn't doing anything different then we have to double check the bow. It sounds like he is experienced enough to know if he is doing something wrong.
Yes, it could be a sight that has loosened up or any number of things that have loosened on his bow. If the sight hasn't moved and he is sure of it, then it only leaves one thing. His nocking point has lowered by something on the arrow rest, peep, d-loop or string. String stretch, peep moving up, d-loop down, arrow rest changed. Each of these can cause several issues, cams out of time, depending on which cam can cause high arrow flight. Simplicity of a bow, if it shoots high and nothing has change from the shooter or the sights, then it is the nock point in someway.
Have him focus on the things that can and do effect it.
Should be able to identify the issue in a short time.
Hope that helps and he gets it going again shortly, mostly just tell him don't get upset with it. It happens and just needs figured out and fixed. I think it can, has or will happen to everyone that ever shoots a bow, something will change and we just fix it. That is what makes it so much fun.
Now if everything checks out on the bow, then need to really double check the form but nothing is unfixable. Just find it and then we fix it.
Normally in a case like that it is something simple and when we figure it out, we end up shaking our heads at ourselves, laughing and getting after it again.
Good luck on hunting to both of you this year.

Thank you!

[vandeman17]

My dad ended up bringing his bow down to the bow shop in Bend and it turns out that his peep had slid. They fixed that and ended up extending his draw length and adjusting his form a bit. He is having a bit of a tougher time drawing now that the letoff is farther back but he will get used to it.

[pianoman9701]

Cool beans. 

I mark my string with a sharpee where it touches the peep so I know it hasn't moved. You have to retouch the marks every month or so while shooting steadily, but it makes that adjustment easy as heck when it goes out.

[vandeman17]

Cool beans. 

I mark my string with a sharpee where it touches the peep so I know it hasn't moved. You have to retouch the marks every month or so while shooting steadily, but it makes that adjustment easy as heck when it goes out.

That is a good idea, especially before going on a hunt. Last thing you would want is to have something happen the day before a big bull steps out in front of you. 

[WonkyWapiti]

Sounds like peep travel to me.

I've had this problem before too.  Another problem I had that changed my point of impact was my drop away rest that was tied into my bowstring started to slide.  A little bit of serving string to hold it in place and voila I was good to go again.  It sure was frustrating at first tho until I figured it out.

[BULLBLASTER]

With a consistent anchor and form you will instantly know if the peep has moved as soon as you hit your anchor. I have had my peep move and can slide it back to the same spot without shooting and know its in the correct spot.

[pianoman9701]

I agree about form but a 1/4" move might not be noticed. The mark on the string doesn't hurt to have.

[vandeman17]

With a consistent anchor and form you will instantly know if the peep has moved as soon as you hit your anchor. I have had my peep move and can slide it back to the same spot without shooting and know its in the correct spot.

I don't think my dad has/had enough experience to fully notice a change so that is probably why it wasn't obvious when it happened.

[BULLBLASTER]

Agreed. There is a long learning curve and alot of muscle memory to get. The shooting to be automatic. Either way I'm glad he got it figured out and also agree a mark on the string.never.hurt anything! Tell him to iep shooting them up! He has a bull to poke in Sept!

[vandeman17]

Agreed. There is a long learning curve and alot of muscle memory to get. The shooting to be automatic. Either way I'm glad he got it figured out and also agree a mark on the string.never.hurt anything! Tell him to iep shooting them up! He has a bull to poke in Sept!

Yes he does! I can't wait to test my calling skills and hopefully call a bull in for him. I don't even care if I draw my bow as long as he gets some close encounters with some bulls!

[BULLBLASTER]

Heck ya! Make sure that using the reed mouth calm is second nature. I even practice at full draw. To stop elk for a shot.

[vandeman17]

Heck ya! Make sure that using the reed mouth calm is second nature. I even practice at full draw. To stop elk for a shot.

I practice a few times per week on my drives to and from work so a mouth call is not a problem. I do get some funny looks when I am at a light with my windows down making cow calls.