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Author Topic: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting  (Read 11814 times)

Offline wonder

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Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« on: September 17, 2013, 06:50:02 AM »
How common has it been for those of you experienced bowhunters to have run ins with cougars while out bowhunting?  I've heard stories from several experienced hunters but would like to hear yours.

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 07:04:10 AM »
I wish.   I never seem to run into them when I am armed.   I run into them all the time when out tromping.

Offline xd2005

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 07:06:08 AM »

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 07:14:29 AM »
Last encounter I had......   I got out of my truck to go through a gate/fence.  I heard a buck raking some brush.  I moved my truck out of the way, grabbed my camera and closed on the sound.  A decent buck was tearing it up.  He paused and started to walk away.  He was watching something underneath me.  I didn't know what.  About that time, these deer exploded out.  I was  in a great position to see them climb up the hill across from me, so I sat and watched, hopeing a big buck would appear.   WAIT A MINUTE, the last animal isn't a deer, its a cat.   It was chasing a doe.   The cat lept in the air to take her down and  grabbed at the deer.  The deer ducked its shoulder and kept its feet.  The cat ripped it from belly across its back and flew into open space carried by its momentum.   The deer powered up the hill. The cat was now in the air in open space doing barrel rolls in the air as it was a steep hill.  The cat hit the ground on its back.  This whole time I was pointing and shooting as I didn't want to look into the viewfinder and not see what was happening. (happens alot in photography).   I then looked into the camera, and missed where the cat went.   I watched and watched.   Where is the damn cat????  I finally reached into my pocket and pulled out a bearmanric call and gave a couple blows.   Nothing.....then I heard something.  I turned and there was the cat less than 10 feet away. FACE TO FACE  I think the focus on my camera can focus 9 feet and out, and it was too close to focus.   PUCKER FACTOR time. 

Offline wonder

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 07:34:38 AM »
I read about that double cougar kill shot.  If that is legit, what are the odds of that happening?  What an amazing story!

Offline wonder

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2013, 07:39:54 AM »
With all the great pictures you've taken boneaddict over the years I would expect that you would have a few to share.  Even without pictures I'm sure you've got more stories?  Closest I've come is a cat screaming in the middle of the night right outside my truck at 30 yards or so.  Made every hair on the back of my neck stand up.  I've felt that creepy feeling way out in the woods that something was watching me but never seen one.  Thanks for sharing.

Offline stickbuck

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 08:40:56 AM »
Was sitting in my treestand in my evening elk spot. I had been cow calling for about 15 minutes when a chipmunk to my right went on high alert and sent out a machine gun rapid fire alarm sound. I had never heard one make this call at such a fast rate. You almost knew something was very wrong. For the next several minutes, I too was on high alert looking for what had caused this little creature to go into alarm mode. After the woods quieted down, I realized that it must have been a false alarm or so I thought. Well, I was sadly mistaken when I heard the smallest branch on the ground make the smallest cracking sound. As I looked down, this cat was standing five feet from the base of my tree and staring directly at me. The stare down went on for just over a minute when I slowly stood up to grab my bow. As I did, this cat slumped to the ground and belly crawled into a small patch of brush no bigger than ten feet wide. I sat for the next 30 minutes shaking uncontrollably watching the brush but the cat never emerged. As I climbed down just before dark an hour later, I walked directly to that brush which was now void of this cat. Where did it go and how did it escape without me seeing it? I had a 30 minute walk in the dark following my exit from my stand and I don't think I've ever been so freaked out in the dark as I was that night. I think that 30 minute walk only took me half that as a result of this encounter. They are unbelievable scary and beautiful at the same time.

Offline hntrspud

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2013, 12:50:23 PM »
I have read that for every 48 hrs you are in the woods a cat has watched you for around 2 of those hrs on average.

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2013, 08:53:00 AM »
Probably pretty accurate.   Last cat I shot I walked underneath it twice while trying to trail it in the snow.  The SOB finally bailed out of the tree behind me.  PUCKER CITY   

I've had more than one moment out in the woods when I knew I wasn't alone.  Hairs on the back of the neck standing up.   I'm obviously pretty comfortable in the woods, so I know something was up.   I used to call elk all the time at night, especially nights like tonight with the moon and temps drop during the peak of the rut.   I wonder how many other visitors I have had. 

Offline walt

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2013, 09:05:20 AM »
I was looking for an article on a cougar attack in MT a few years ago and came across this site.  If you have an hour or so to kill there is all kinds of info and first hand accounts of cougar encounters and attacks over the last century. 
http://www.cougarinfo.org/

Offline Doublelunger

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2013, 09:13:53 AM »
Last season I saw two cougars...or maybe it was one cougar twice. I was in my stand for 30 days during the late archery, so if that statistic is true I guess I was due to see one.

Offline steen

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2013, 05:24:45 PM »
My only known encounters were: first while walking in a trial I made in the woods behind my house I saw something slink away as only a cougar can do about 20 yds. or less.  The other time was while hunting. When we got back to camp my brother in law asked if I saw the cougar that was 40 yds. above me.  I hadn't but it felt a little unnerving.  That is about it.

Offline hillbilli

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2013, 04:42:06 AM »
Only one encounter- last year, elk archery. Sitting in a tree stand 50 yds or so back in the treeline, saw something walking along the edge of the trees- that looked too short to be a mule deer, and figured it was a coyote, only clear look I had was when It crossed my shooting lane at 40yds.. which with the recurve was the outer edge of my range.. he didnt stop, and I didnt try to shoot. he kept going, and I didnt see him again.

Offline hike2hunt

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2013, 06:16:24 AM »
last year, my buddy and I had one come up behind us while elk calling on ridge, he was within 10yds. This year, same area, saw him taking a nap at 100yds or more...just the way I like it....

Offline KenPCPilot

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2013, 08:13:11 AM »
Last season elk hunting near Mt. Adams I had a couger stalk me up to 17 yards.  I was calling with an elk calf call.  I could see fairly well and was set up near a mud wallow.  Twice I thought I might have hear something but is was very light and did not see anything till I turned on the stump I was sitting.  He was looking straight at me a full grown cat.  Note to self carry that .357 mag on you at all times.  It was the first lion I had seen in the wild.  Thrilling but a little closer than I ever want to be again in the wild.  The stealth of its approach impressed me the most.  How could something that big not make a sound and come so close unseen.  Makes me wonder just common this may be.
GO BUCKS

Offline Rmac4859

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2013, 09:11:32 PM »
several years ago I was on a week long solo hunt.  I had dropped down into a valley behind my camp because I had heard some cow calls the night before.  I crossed a small creek  and then climbed up the other side a little ways and found a place to sit with a nice view. I thought I had seen movement on the hill across from me, but it was only a big stump (I spot lots of elk stumps).  The second time I looked a cougar was sitting on the stump. After it left I was thinking it was cool to see one and I wish I had brought my camera.  A few minutes later a cougar walked out of the trees right where I had crossed the creek.  A minute later two more walked out and joined the first.  Now I am all alone 45 yards away from three cougars with no gun, cougar tag or camera (I was more upset about the camera).  The cougars relaxed down by the creek.  They were laying down and yawning (lots of teeth).  While I was watching the cats a grouse had snuck up behind me.  It launched  out of the brush behind me and flew over my head.  I about went with it. One of the cats stood up. I was trying to make my plan on defending myself (shoot one then try to stab the other two with my other arrows), but they relaxed again.  When they started to leave I did a really stupid thing. I decided to see what they would do if I blew a cow call. Things got a little tense for a while.  When they did leave I realized they went in a direction that put them between me and my camp.  Other than that I have only seen a few on the roads.  The last one I saw was really only the end of its tail moving back and forth. I never could get into a position to see the rest of it

Offline stuckalot

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2013, 07:31:53 PM »
Two years ago my wife and I were hunting the Colockum, wet rainy morning we had been out and back to camp and were heading out again. We decided to hike in down the reserve fence, then drop down the ridge we were going to hunt. So we were moving along pretty quickly, hoods up heads down, when my wife says "what's that over there it looks like fur". I couldn't make it out so I pullout my rangefinder since it was the easiest thing to get to, and sure enough it looks like fur. We were both thinking it might have been an elk that some guys were looking for the previous evening so I fumbled around and pulled out my binoculars to get a better look. Much to my surprise it was a very large cat sleeping on the ground about 40 yards away! At which point I wanted the camera and my wife wanted my 44! It was about this time that a squirrel dropped what sounded like a three foot long 2x4 out of the top of a tree next to us! With all the racket the cat woke up and stared directly at us! After a few tense moments the cat laid his head back down.  Apparently having a sense of humor or nothing else to do the squirrel dropped the other 2x4 out of the tree! Again waking up the big cat to stare at us some more! The cat must have been very tired because shortly he laid his head down again and appeared to cover his eyes with a giant paw! We did manage to get a couple crappy pictures, that I will try to share, before we moved on. I'm pretty certain that was a once in a lifetime experience!
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Offline bowhunterforever

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2013, 09:57:14 PM »
Why didn't you shoot the cat stuckalot?
You sure you know how to skin griz pilgram

Offline northcoast

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2013, 07:10:53 AM »
Saw one this year at 50 yds chowing down on the cow my cousin shot the night before.  I would have taken the shot but this is the first year I didn't buy the full combo.  Just my luck too because I had a run in with a bear at 15 yds less than an hour after seeing the kitty.

Offline stuckalot

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2013, 12:04:48 PM »
Bowhunter,  it was the year that cougar season was weapon specific, so I would have had to have taken it with my bow, and along with my hesitance to shoot large predators with a sharp stick and then trail them through the brush, I didn't have an open shot. There was also the little issue of it being in the wrong side of the reserve fence! Just a little different circumstance I would have taken a shot at it.
I am free only because thousands of brave Americans have given their lives for me...

Offline bowhunterforever

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2013, 03:39:17 PM »
Bowhunter,  it was the year that cougar season was weapon specific, so I would have had to have taken it with my bow, and along with my hesitance to shoot large predators with a sharp stick and then trail them through the brush, I didn't have an open shot. There was also the little issue of it being in the wrong side of the reserve fence! Just a little different circumstance I would have taken a shot at it.
well that sucks, still an awesome experince
You sure you know how to skin griz pilgram

Offline buck man

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2013, 03:34:08 PM »
I was hunting in one of my tree stands on nov. 30 th 2009. There was a 180" whitetail I was after. I was really surprised when no deer showed. Not even a doe. Then I saw brown fur coming through the brush and quickly realized it was a cougar. One arrow later and a short 30 yard tracking job and I had a 126# female cat on the ground. Biggest hunting rush of my life.
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Online vandeman17

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2013, 03:46:02 PM »
Not while bow hunting but my buddy and I were hiking out from our stands right before dark in the NE corner. We had just hit a little skid road when I stopped him and asked if he smelled that. It smelled funky, almost like something dead but not quite rotten. I had barely said something when we heard that creepy cat growl/moan off to the other side of the skid road. We both spun quickly and raised our guns. I said immediately that it was a cat. We sat there for a few seconds and then it made the sound again and we looked at each other with that  :yike: look on our faces. I ended up slowly walking up the road and tossing some sticks over the edge. We never saw the cat but I am confident it had a kill down in the brush right below us. Talk about a tense hike out in our headlamps that night!
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Offline HighCountryHunter88

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2013, 04:07:20 PM »
I was hunting in one of my tree stands on nov. 30 th 2009. There was a 180" whitetail I was after. I was really surprised when no deer showed. Not even a doe. Then I saw brown fur coming through the brush and quickly realized it was a cougar. One arrow later and a short 30 yard tracking job and I had a 126# female cat on the ground. Biggest hunting rush of my life.

thats a NICE sized female!
-Matt

Offline BABackcountryBwhntr

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2013, 01:58:43 PM »
had my first this elk season and man was it a scary one... girl and I were back in about 25 miles from gate....  the only day we split up to hunt, she gets on a herd and shoots a cow.... about 15 min before dark.. the cow walks off into the timber and she walks out of the cut and onto the logging road.... as she steps down, the light of her headlamp catches eyes just off the road on the other side... at first she thought it was more elk, but then she noticed the eyes were much to close to the ground, and yellow and shaped wrong... about that time I had made it back to camp and radioed to see where she was... of course the 45 was in her pack... AT CAMP.. so she says.. hey I got a big cat following me... grab the gun and get down here.... I grab the gun and make my way down... the cat had followed her a few feet as she moved.... all we could see where the eyes in the light of the headlamp... I aimed and fired the first shot.... the cat did not move, blink, or flinch... it was beyond scary at that point..... then she takes the gun and gives it a go.. same thing.... the cat does not move .... then we take a few more steps... the cat follows..... it was very obvious it was hunting.... US..... we kept the light on it the best we could and back out slowly... camp was only a few hundred feet up.. so we quickly gathered supplies and hiked out into the cut for the night.. we split watch and never got a wink of sleep.. we then found her cow just across the road from where we last saw the cat.... between the cat and yotes.. there was nothing left to salvage..... quite the night......

Offline Broken Arrow

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2013, 02:24:15 PM »
Have seen quite a few during scouting and one durring turkey season. Saw one during archery, 30 yards facing me, drew my bow and with in milliseconds it spun and ran...never had a shot.

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2013, 02:33:37 PM »
Saw one during archery, 30 yards facing me, drew my bow and with in milliseconds it spun and ran...never had a shot.

Might have seen one in a "similar" area this September  :chuckle:

Too far for a bow shot.  I went back up to that spot for the next three days and the elk were nowhere to be found after that cat cruised through.
Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.

Offline ouchfoss

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2013, 11:08:04 PM »
Its happened to me three different times. First time was when I was cow calling in a random spot and had one sneak up within 10 yards and then vanished into brush. 
Second time was when I was sneaking down a logging road and when I peaked around a sharp corner one was looking back my direction and jumped into the thick reprod. I snuck up there to see if I could get a shot and after a few minutes, I realized it was a momma and at least kitten was on one side of the road and momma was on the other. The adult would make weird audible sounds and the kitten would make different pitched sounds right back at it. This went on for like 15 minutes within about 20 yards on both sides of me. Then the momma cat made a different sound and I heard some brush rustle on the kittens side and then silence and never heard anything again. I am just guessing it was a mom with kittens just because of the different sounds of the cats but it could have very well been two adults.  :dunno:
Third time was for sure two adult cats doing their "mating" calls.
I was walking into the timber in the back of a older clearcut when I started hearing what I thought was a really bad cow call. Kinda high pitched but sounded different and I thought it might have been my cousin out there hunting just doing a bad job with his mouth reed(he was hunting in kinda the same area that morning). I snuck up to investigate and when I got within 40 yards I heard it and it sounded noticeably different than a cow call so I knocked an arrow and when I walked around a tree, a huge cat jumped out of the bushes like twenty feet in front of me and made one bounce about 10 feet in the air and then bounced right into the brush. I walked back 20 yards to where the cat came from and bumped another adult cat that vaporized into the brush too.     
Pretty sure I had one stalk me on my way back to the truck one day but I never saw (just heard it) it so its anyones guess. Some day, one will hold still long enough.  :bash:

Offline PolarBear

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2013, 11:28:39 PM »
I have only seen one cougar while bowhunting and I got her.  She was trailing a doe that had passed about 5 minutes before.  I waited until her head was past me and I stuck her behind the shoulder.  She spun around in circles biting at the wound then all of a sudden stopped and looked straight up the tree and straight into my eyes.  I was sure that she was headed up to join me in my treestand.  Instead she did a couple more spins then collapsed.  It took me over an hour before I was ready to come out of my stand and check my shorts.  I wound up getting a really nice buck the next day only 100 yards farther down the ridge.

Offline fly4fish

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2013, 12:00:40 PM »
I had a very scary encounter once, and as luck would have it, I did not have my bow, or any weapon for that matter. I was charged to within 10 feet. I wrote a story with pictures here. Wish I'd have had a Solvid CamStrap on.

Here is the link to the story: http://www.bestforhunting.com/2011/09/mountain-lion-encounter/

Offline Tbob

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2014, 04:31:52 PM »
Wow. Very cool story!

Offline buglebrush

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2014, 10:07:59 AM »
I have been fortunate to encounter several.  The coolest thing I ever saw was a big cat jump on a cow elk.  I was watching this from 800 yards away through my spotter.  She hit the brakes so hard the cat flew over her head.  She then tried to stomp him to death, but he got away.  Sadly, I watched the cat angling to ambush her as they both headed into cover.  This was in spring bear season, and I am convinced the cow had a calf somewhere nearby. 

Once while on a sheep hunt in Idaho ( my buddy was the hunter ) we were glassing across a canyon.  My buddy decided he needed to take a dump and went about 50 yards away behind a little brush clump.  as he went around one side a huge tom slunk out the other.  It headed right at me, and I followed it with my .44 mag as it passed within 5 yards of me.  Sadly, I did not have an Idaho tag as I was only along for the ride.  That was a great day though.  We watched two bull elk fighting, and were charged by a black bear with two cubs.  Another step, and she would've been dead.  stopped about fifteen yards away. 

one of my cousins had a cat chase him off his fresh killed deer.  It was dark, and with only a scoped rifel he just managed to hit one of its front legs from point blank range.  There was about a foot of snow, and we were on its tracks at first light.  tracked it almost all day.  It circled back and followed us numerous times.  We found out later it couldn't tree with a shot foreleg.   Ended up shooting it from the hip with a rifle after almost walking past it less than 5 yards away.  Just caught the tail twitching out of the corner of my eye.  Definitely the scariest most awesome hunt ever! 

Have seen others, but nothing too exciting.  Definitely know I have been watched many times.  :)

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2014, 10:49:31 AM »
While bow hunting:

Sitting on a stump cow calling and had one stalk up on me about 15 feet away.  I had no idea how long it stared at the back of my head, no clue it was there until I stood up and it bounded off through the brush.  There was a small drainage I was sitting right near so it used that to put the sneak on me.  If it wanted me I'd have been toast, but like most archery hunters the cat didn't know what it was looking at when it snuck in expecting to find an Elk and instead found a human oblivious to it's presence.   I use walkers game ears now,  would have been nice to hear it sneaking in and got ready for a shot - opportunity to take a cat was lost.



Another was berry picking with 2 kids and a grandpa and a bird dog.  had to ditch the atv's and decided to hoof it the rest of the way.   Got about a 1/2 mile in (we underestimated the distance) and came across a big tom that must have just sprayed a tree.  You could smell the cat piss wafting in the wind and sticking to your tongue -  nasty!

My little Britt had no clue she was about to get eaten as she was heading up towards the cat, I had a tough time recalling her but she eventually came to me then I used a belt for a leash.  We expected the cat to take off but instead it just sat there hidden behind a log.  none of us were armed

We decided to head back to the Atv's and this cat stalked us the entire way,  you could hear it just above us on a rocky ridge with brush breaks, occasionally it would break a branch giving away it's position as it kept pace with us.  Eventually it went away (we thought) instead it had run ahead of us and set up an ambush on the trail we were using.  it popped its head up out of the bushes just uphill from us.   I rared back with a big stick getting ready to clobber it over the head,  but it sat back down in the bushes and we eased past it (about 10 feet away) 

I went back up the next morning with a ruger 44 carbine,  it shat right in our tracks but didn't show itself.

I never go unarmed now.  Irresponsible to do so now.   I used to tromp through the woods pretty much every day as a kid, but there were no wolves and the bears/cats were chased with houndsmen so I was pretty safe if I didn't injure myself.  Not so much now we have uneducated wolves, bears and cats and more grizz than ever. 

I think you'd all be shocked if you knew how many grizz there are now. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 11:05:05 AM by KFhunter »

Offline wadu1

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2014, 11:05:27 AM »
Well let’s see what I can remember. The first one was on a scouting trip in the NE glassing a hill side and only seeing one beef cow when all of a sudden I see a cat *censored* footing towards the cow. The cat sprang from about 10-12 feet onto the back of the cow and it was down and kicking in few minutes and then lunch for the cat. The next encounter was at Swan Lake south of Republic in 1967 or 8, we were using the old camp kitchen as a place to sleep and cook. About midnight we heard a cat screaming on Swan Butte a little while later we herd some rustling in our gear. I grabbed the old metal Ray-O-Vac flashlight thinking it was a packrat but NO it was a cat sitting on the picnic table about 10 feet away. I must have let out a good scream because it scarred the cat away. The next encounter was on Vancouver Island, my cousin and I were glassing some re-prod in a foot of snow. I was having that feeling that we were being watched, after glassing and finding nothing we turned to go back to the truck only to find where a cat had crouched in the snow about 20 feet behind us. The last one was also on Vancouver Island, I was bear hunting and not seeing much in the re-prod so I used one of Rick’s bear calls to see if I could get some action. Boy did I get some action, three medium cats cruising through the brush straight at me and my cousin. When we stood up in our cammo gear when they got to 20 yards with guns ready that was enough for them. 
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Offline Greg Mullins

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2014, 09:03:34 PM »
2010 on a cow elk hunt in the Mudflow. Walked in around 5 still dark and saw a shadow moving away from me in the road.It was still pretty dark and I thought it was a small deer.I was about 80 yards from it and in the low light it turned sideways in the road.It stood still for about 5 secs then jumped of into the brush on the right side and was gone.Wont lie Brett spooky in low light.

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Re: Encounters with Cougars while bowhunting
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2014, 09:25:21 PM »
I myself have never seen a cat but my dad has told me about a good freind of his (Jack Wahl) maybe spelled diff. But anyway in the 70's they were elk hunting in the late season and Jacks boy Rusty had walked to the other side of a clearing and stumbled on blood and decided to follow it. Be ended up on top of a cougar kill that was fresh and partially covered. As he looked around he caught a glimpse of movement and sure enough not 10 yards away was a monster tom crouched with his tail spinning ready to pounce. Rusty like 14 years old shooting a a compound with no sights (first year never shot a thing) ended up shooting it right square in the chest. He ran back and got Jack and my dad and they all thought he was full of *censored* till they found the cat dead. Not sure exact size but my dad said at the time it was the 2nd largest cat killed in Wa.
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