Unit 113 Woodland Caribou ( Wolf Kills )

[KFhunter]

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jun/14/snowmobiler-commissioned-study-disputes-caribou/

[KFhunter]

It's sad really- this species is likely to be extirpated and hunters (the ONE group that used to support species recovery) is going to standby and watch it happen because they are too afraid to take a difficult postition on wilderness, access issues (there are issues), predator management, and to think outside the box on highway stike protection.

Hunters are also part of other user groups - who's going to support more wilderness?

predator management is the only thing you typed that makes a lick of sense.

[WAcoyotehunter]

you can't snowmobile where the caribou are, it's been shut down for 5 years or so - both on BC and US side.

I used to snowmobile in that general area, never came across any caribou as they tend to stick to the trees and snowmobiles like the higher more open areas.  regardless it's shut off.

The more I digest your post the more irritated I get at the blatant ignorance of it.

Your irritation isn't a concern to me. 

I spend ~70-90 winter days every year in that country for work and for hunting.  There are very few caribou and there are still quite a few snowmobiles using the landscape. 

The closure area is probably larger than it needs to be.  A well organized push to get some back might gain leverage IF (big IF) the snowmobiles could stay away from the areas that the caribou still frequent.

[WAcoyotehunter]

It's sad really- this species is likely to be extirpated and hunters (the ONE group that used to support species recovery) is going to standby and watch it happen because they are too afraid to take a difficult postition on wilderness, access issues (there are issues), predator management, and to think outside the box on highway stike protection.

Hunters are also part of other user groups - who's going to support more wilderness?

predator management is the only thing you typed that makes a lick of sense.

No, it's the only issue YOU are interested in.  To make a marked difference it is going to take a suite of action.

[KFhunter]

are the snowmobiles riding in a closed area?  cause I got no mercy for out of bounds riding   

I took your post as advocating more closures,  are you advocating for more closures or better enforcement of already closed areas?

[KFhunter]

It's sad really- this species is likely to be extirpated and hunters (the ONE group that used to support species recovery) is going to standby and watch it happen because they are too afraid to take a difficult postition on wilderness, access issues (there are issues), predator management, and to think outside the box on highway stike protection.

Hunters are also part of other user groups - who's going to support more wilderness?

predator management is the only thing you typed that makes a lick of sense.

No, it's the only issue YOU are interested in.  To make a marked difference it is going to take a suite of action.

If you want caribou then your going to have to high fence them and feed em hay

[Elkaholic daWg]

you can't snowmobile where the caribou are, it's been shut down for 5 years or so - both on BC and US side.

I used to snowmobile in that general area, never came across any caribou as they tend to stick to the trees and snowmobiles like the higher more open areas.  regardless it's shut off.

The more I digest your post the more irritated I get at the blatant ignorance of it.

Your irritation isn't a concern to me. 

I spend ~70-90 winter days every year in that country for work and for hunting.  There are very few caribou and there are still quite a few snowmobiles using the landscape. 

The closure area is probably larger than it needs to be.  A well organized push to get some back might gain leverage IF (big IF) the snowmobiles could stay away from the areas that the caribou still frequent.

Or is yours to us. Go get 'em KF....  He knows not with who he sleeps

[KFhunter]

you can't snowmobile where the caribou are, it's been shut down for 5 years or so - both on BC and US side.

I used to snowmobile in that general area, never came across any caribou as they tend to stick to the trees and snowmobiles like the higher more open areas.  regardless it's shut off.

The more I digest your post the more irritated I get at the blatant ignorance of it.

Your irritation isn't a concern to me. 

I spend ~70-90 winter days every year in that country for work and for hunting.  There are very few caribou and there are still quite a few snowmobiles using the landscape. 

The closure area is probably larger than it needs to be.  A well organized push to get some back might gain leverage IF (big IF) the snowmobiles could stay away from the areas that the caribou still frequent.

Show us some pictures off your own camera Mr.  ~70-90 winter days. 

[KFhunter]

you can't snowmobile where the caribou are, it's been shut down for 5 years or so - both on BC and US side.

I used to snowmobile in that general area, never came across any caribou as they tend to stick to the trees and snowmobiles like the higher more open areas.  regardless it's shut off.

The more I digest your post the more irritated I get at the blatant ignorance of it.

Your irritation isn't a concern to me. 

I spend ~70-90 winter days every year in that country for work and for hunting.  There are very few caribou and there are still quite a few snowmobiles using the landscape. 

The closure area is probably larger than it needs to be.  A well organized push to get some back might gain leverage IF (big IF) the snowmobiles could stay away from the areas that the caribou still frequent.

Or is yours to us. Go get 'em KF....  He knows not with who he sleeps

  

[bearpaw]

 The only way this herd can grow is to reduce most of the predation, currently no biologist and no agency including WDFW seems to be interested in doing that to save the last caribou herd in the lower 48.

Everyone seems too wrapped up in their cuddly wolves and other predators to care about caribou. 

You sure about that Dale??  I don't think that's the case at all.  Predation is an issue that has been discussed quite a lot. 

Snowmobile disruption and vehicle strikes are both serious problems too.  The herd needs help- it's a shame that hunters have turned their back on this species.  Originally, the sportsman groups were champions of caribou recovery, now it seems the groups are jaded.  It appears that the wolf recovery drama has made hunters begin to equate wilderness and species conservation with "anti hunting".

It's sad really- this species is likely to be extirpated and hunters (the ONE group that used to support species recovery) is going to standby and watch it happen because they are too afraid to take a difficult postition on wilderness, access issues (there are issues), predator management, and to think outside the box on highway stike protection.

Boss- the salt/fertilizer is used as de-icer in Canada

Wow, I think you are badly mistaken. I made a big point about the caribou during the wolf plan process and from what I could see, biologists, the WDFW, and the Commission largely sidestepped the caribou issue in favor of putting more wolves on the landscape. Please prove me wrong I would love to have more faith in our agency and biologists.

I cannot see much public display of concern by any biologist or WDFW concerning predation on any specie. The concern seems to be to protect predators of all species and there appears to be little concern about the game herds.

[boneaddict]

The concern seems to be to protect predators of all species and there appears to be little concern about the game herds.

I don't think that has varied much in the agenda or in any of their plans for past years, but even more pronounced now with wolves.

[KFhunter]

If the bio's radio collared the caribou,  and were transparent about the caribou's travel patterns then user groups like snowmobiles would gladly accept a reasonable closure with buffer zone.  Caribou are looked at with distaste because they are nothing but an excuse to close off vast swaths of land, which is a baby step towards more wilderness.  IE: Spotted Owls.


Snowmobile'rs are pretty well organized as they've been under attack from human powered winter sports activists for a long time, if they weren't they'd have never gotten Priest lake area back open. 

I still have yet, in 5+ years seen ANY evidence that snowmobiles are crossing paths with the Caribou.  No one has been able to provide that.

[Huntin Hounds]

You guys are getting to caught up on just one aspect of the caribou problem. In order to bring back the caribou you need available habitat and better calf recruitment. There are not enough caribou in that area to grow the population period. We need an organized effort to bring in multiple herds and space them in different locations.

KFhunter- I'm sure you have not seen any sign of the caribou because the only herds that exist occupy habitat in Canada. We have great habitat for them here on our side too but there are no caribou to repopulate.

Look at it like the wolf reintroduction. Wolves were coming back to the lower 48 already prior to '95. There were already established packs in Montana. The wolves in north Idaho and Washington came from Canada not central Idaho. I know this because they had multiple packs in unit 1 in Idaho before we had packs in unit 4. The lookout pack migrated from Canada as well which is why they were the first documented pack in Washington. After putting wolves in multiple locations over 2 years they started separate populations which eventually connected making one large population. I believe this is what needs to happen with the caribou if we realistically want to see their population rebound.

That's how I see it. Just as Dale and KFhunter said we also need to knock the predator pop down for several years at a minimum(which is not going to happen with Washington). We need leg hold traps for the wolves and hounds for the cats. No one is going to like this idea but white tailed deer pops need to be reduced also as they are the main food source for predators in the area. More deer = More predators.

There is no way to get the green necks and the hunters to agree on how to bring them back, so they will go extinct.

[Skyvalhunter]

Might want to check your sources.

[WAcoyotehunter]

you can't snowmobile where the caribou are, it's been shut down for 5 years or so - both on BC and US side.

I used to snowmobile in that general area, never came across any caribou as they tend to stick to the trees and snowmobiles like the higher more open areas.  regardless it's shut off.

The more I digest your post the more irritated I get at the blatant ignorance of it.

Your irritation isn't a concern to me. 

I spend ~70-90 winter days every year in that country for work and for hunting.  There are very few caribou and there are still quite a few snowmobiles using the landscape. 

The closure area is probably larger than it needs to be.  A well organized push to get some back might gain leverage IF (big IF) the snowmobiles could stay away from the areas that the caribou still frequent.

Show us some pictures off your own camera Mr.  ~70-90 winter days. 

I can show you.  I have been on the caribou flight the last two winters.  There were snowmobile tracks in the closure areas both years.  We found caribou the winter before last, about 10 miles south of the Border.

I don't want more closures.  I want enforcement of the closed areas and the unused (by caribou) portions to be re opened to snowmobiles.