Free: Contests & Raffles.
Quote from: WAcoyotehunter on October 22, 2013, 09:33:25 AMQuote from: bearpaw on October 22, 2013, 09:23:07 AM The only way this herd can grow is to reduce most of the predation, currently no biologist and no agency including WDFW seems to be interested in doing that to save the last caribou herd in the lower 48.Everyone seems too wrapped up in their cuddly wolves and other predators to care about caribou. You sure about that Dale?? I don't think that's the case at all. Predation is an issue that has been discussed quite a lot. Snowmobile disruption and vehicle strikes are both serious problems too. The herd needs help- it's a shame that hunters have turned their back on this species. Originally, the sportsman groups were champions of caribou recovery, now it seems the groups are jaded. It appears that the wolf recovery drama has made hunters begin to equate wilderness and species conservation with "anti hunting". It's sad really- this species is likely to be extirpated and hunters (the ONE group that used to support species recovery) is going to standby and watch it happen because they are too afraid to take a difficult postition on wilderness, access issues (there are issues), predator management, and to think outside the box on highway stike protection.Boss- the salt/fertilizer is used as de-icer in CanadaWow, I think you are badly mistaken. I made a big point about the caribou during the wolf plan process and from what I could see, biologists, the WDFW, and the Commission largely sidestepped the caribou issue in favor of putting more wolves on the landscape. Please prove me wrong I would love to have more faith in our agency and biologists.I cannot see much public display of concern by any biologist or WDFW concerning predation on any specie. The concern seems to be to protect predators of all species and there appears to be little concern about the game herds.
Quote from: bearpaw on October 22, 2013, 09:23:07 AM The only way this herd can grow is to reduce most of the predation, currently no biologist and no agency including WDFW seems to be interested in doing that to save the last caribou herd in the lower 48.Everyone seems too wrapped up in their cuddly wolves and other predators to care about caribou. You sure about that Dale?? I don't think that's the case at all. Predation is an issue that has been discussed quite a lot. Snowmobile disruption and vehicle strikes are both serious problems too. The herd needs help- it's a shame that hunters have turned their back on this species. Originally, the sportsman groups were champions of caribou recovery, now it seems the groups are jaded. It appears that the wolf recovery drama has made hunters begin to equate wilderness and species conservation with "anti hunting". It's sad really- this species is likely to be extirpated and hunters (the ONE group that used to support species recovery) is going to standby and watch it happen because they are too afraid to take a difficult postition on wilderness, access issues (there are issues), predator management, and to think outside the box on highway stike protection.Boss- the salt/fertilizer is used as de-icer in Canada
The only way this herd can grow is to reduce most of the predation, currently no biologist and no agency including WDFW seems to be interested in doing that to save the last caribou herd in the lower 48.Everyone seems too wrapped up in their cuddly wolves and other predators to care about caribou.
Quote from: KFhunter on October 22, 2013, 10:16:01 AMQuote from: WAcoyotehunter on October 22, 2013, 10:01:58 AMQuote from: KFhunter on October 22, 2013, 09:48:05 AMyou can't snowmobile where the caribou are, it's been shut down for 5 years or so - both on BC and US side. I used to snowmobile in that general area, never came across any caribou as they tend to stick to the trees and snowmobiles like the higher more open areas. regardless it's shut off. The more I digest your post the more irritated I get at the blatant ignorance of it. Your irritation isn't a concern to me. I spend ~70-90 winter days every year in that country for work and for hunting. There are very few caribou and there are still quite a few snowmobiles using the landscape. The closure area is probably larger than it needs to be. A well organized push to get some back might gain leverage IF (big IF) the snowmobiles could stay away from the areas that the caribou still frequent.Show us some pictures off your own camera Mr. ~70-90 winter days. I can show you. I have been on the caribou flight the last two winters. There were snowmobile tracks in the closure areas both years. We found caribou the winter before last, about 10 miles south of the Border.I don't want more closures. I want enforcement of the closed areas and the unused (by caribou) portions to be re opened to snowmobiles.
Quote from: WAcoyotehunter on October 22, 2013, 10:01:58 AMQuote from: KFhunter on October 22, 2013, 09:48:05 AMyou can't snowmobile where the caribou are, it's been shut down for 5 years or so - both on BC and US side. I used to snowmobile in that general area, never came across any caribou as they tend to stick to the trees and snowmobiles like the higher more open areas. regardless it's shut off. The more I digest your post the more irritated I get at the blatant ignorance of it. Your irritation isn't a concern to me. I spend ~70-90 winter days every year in that country for work and for hunting. There are very few caribou and there are still quite a few snowmobiles using the landscape. The closure area is probably larger than it needs to be. A well organized push to get some back might gain leverage IF (big IF) the snowmobiles could stay away from the areas that the caribou still frequent.Show us some pictures off your own camera Mr. ~70-90 winter days.
Quote from: KFhunter on October 22, 2013, 09:48:05 AMyou can't snowmobile where the caribou are, it's been shut down for 5 years or so - both on BC and US side. I used to snowmobile in that general area, never came across any caribou as they tend to stick to the trees and snowmobiles like the higher more open areas. regardless it's shut off. The more I digest your post the more irritated I get at the blatant ignorance of it. Your irritation isn't a concern to me. I spend ~70-90 winter days every year in that country for work and for hunting. There are very few caribou and there are still quite a few snowmobiles using the landscape. The closure area is probably larger than it needs to be. A well organized push to get some back might gain leverage IF (big IF) the snowmobiles could stay away from the areas that the caribou still frequent.
you can't snowmobile where the caribou are, it's been shut down for 5 years or so - both on BC and US side. I used to snowmobile in that general area, never came across any caribou as they tend to stick to the trees and snowmobiles like the higher more open areas. regardless it's shut off. The more I digest your post the more irritated I get at the blatant ignorance of it.
Did You Ever Get Any Pics Of Them In WA? Love To See Some If You Did.
Might want to check your sources.
Quote from: bearpaw on October 22, 2013, 10:22:47 AMQuote from: WAcoyotehunter on October 22, 2013, 09:33:25 AMQuote from: bearpaw on October 22, 2013, 09:23:07 AM The only way this herd can grow is to reduce most of the predation, currently no biologist and no agency including WDFW seems to be interested in doing that to save the last caribou herd in the lower 48.Everyone seems too wrapped up in their cuddly wolves and other predators to care about caribou. You sure about that Dale?? I don't think that's the case at all. Predation is an issue that has been discussed quite a lot. Snowmobile disruption and vehicle strikes are both serious problems too. The herd needs help- it's a shame that hunters have turned their back on this species. Originally, the sportsman groups were champions of caribou recovery, now it seems the groups are jaded. It appears that the wolf recovery drama has made hunters begin to equate wilderness and species conservation with "anti hunting". It's sad really- this species is likely to be extirpated and hunters (the ONE group that used to support species recovery) is going to standby and watch it happen because they are too afraid to take a difficult postition on wilderness, access issues (there are issues), predator management, and to think outside the box on highway stike protection.Boss- the salt/fertilizer is used as de-icer in CanadaWow, I think you are badly mistaken. I made a big point about the caribou during the wolf plan process and from what I could see, biologists, the WDFW, and the Commission largely sidestepped the caribou issue in favor of putting more wolves on the landscape. Please prove me wrong I would love to have more faith in our agency and biologists.I cannot see much public display of concern by any biologist or WDFW concerning predation on any specie. The concern seems to be to protect predators of all species and there appears to be little concern about the game herds. The only real evidence is in the wolf plan. Something to the effect of "if any threatened ungluate population shows a decline for # yrs the department will implement management activities for wolf populations in the area"It was in the plan. I'm not sure of the specifics of it, but we might be close to meeting that requirement now?
HNTRSPUD and Skyvalhunter,I think we have a miscommunication. I don't I think I explained my position very well. I was only referring to the wolves in unit 1 as coming from Canada. I would say all the wolves south of lake Pend Orielle came from the wolves put in central Idaho in '95 and '96. The Lolo is a perfect storm. You have wolves from northwest Montana growing in population and moving south and you have wolves from central Idaho rapidly expanding north. The Lolo is in my opinion where the two populations came together and expanded the population well above the carrying capacity of the area. I hope that explains my thoughts on that subject.I think the caribou could benefit from a reintroduction similar to the wolf deal. If the wdfw and idfg would put a couple herds of 20+ animals in each state in different drainage's over a couple years and they might get the population to come back.
