CURRENTLY WDFW FEDERAL AGENTS SHOOTING 15 bulls in Skagit River Unit!!!!

[sled]

"The odds of getting a jack-wad are greatly reduced by making it a master hunter controlled hunt.   
"Master Hunter" does not mean they are a better hunter, only that they took the initiative to prove their marksmanship skills, conservation efforts, volunteer work and some other stuff escaping me at the moment."

I think the odds are reduced. 

Master Hunters are subject to a zero tolerance policy: one game (of fish) violation and you're banned from the program for life. That's a pretty hefty incentive to be careful.

It's a bit like a college degree: many employers wants college graduates not necessarily for what they know, but because they believe the individual had the drive and discipline to complete something.  Do college graduates no more than the "average" person who didn't graduate? Maybe, maybe not but employers often use a degree as a gauge of the person.

If a landowner has a choice of giving hunting permission to someone he knows nothing about, or allowing someone who has gone through a special program that requires a fair amount of discipline and work and is expected to behave in a very ethical manner, the perception is often that he is better with the second option. Sure - there are lots of very ethical non master hunters, and certainly a few master hunters who aren't. Once they're busted they're gone, however.

  If You Need Incentive To (Be Careful) You Shouldn't Have A Hunting
 License At All.

[sled]

"The odds of getting a jack-wad are greatly reduced by making it a master hunter controlled hunt.   
"Master Hunter" does not mean they are a better hunter, only that they took the initiative to prove their marksmanship skills, conservation efforts, volunteer work and some other stuff escaping me at the moment."

I think the odds are reduced. 

Master Hunters are subject to a zero tolerance policy: one game (of fish) violation and you're banned from the program for life. That's a pretty hefty incentive to be careful.

It's a bit like a college degree: many employers wants college graduates not necessarily for what they know, but because they believe the individual had the drive and discipline to complete something.  Do college graduates no more than the "average" person who didn't graduate? Maybe, maybe not but employers often use a degree as a gauge of the person.

If a landowner has a choice of giving hunting permission to someone he knows nothing about, or allowing someone who has gone through a special program that requires a fair amount of discipline and work and is expected to behave in a very ethical manner, the perception is often that he is better with the second option. Sure - there are lots of very ethical non master hunters, and certainly a few master hunters who aren't. Once they're busted they're gone, however.

  also Not Everyone Has The Free Time To Invest In Jumping Through Hoops For Better Hunting.
  I Thought That Is What Hunter Ed Was For.

[Tbar]

Pman your spot on. The WDFW culture does not see us sportmen as an asset, just a $$$.
FH I like a general season. I wish they had a general for archery and/or muzzy like they did before. I just mention the MH program because its a program that is currently in place doing some of this work. It wouldn't be hard to expand it only the fly to take care of issues like this one.   WDFW hates general bad press so i think that is why we no longer have a archery or Muzzy general in that area. there have been a couple of incidents that have created bad press. Unfortunately many people fail to realize that this area is less of a hunt, but more a of harvest situation. Killing large amounts of animals in general view of the public isn't PC. I think that is why the feds were doing it at night. 

The restricted seasons are in place there because their target for that herd is 1900 animals and they're only at about 1400 now. This is a really good example of why you don't relocate critters except under very specific circumstances. In this case, the unforeseen consequence of restricting seasons AND moving animals has put the what are now excess animals into farmers' fields instead of having the intended result of filling the woods with elk. There's a reason that only so many animals lived there and we're now seeing what happens when you mess with nature's balance. But never fear, once the wolves show up, ALL of the elk will come down out of the hills and invade the valley. Another fine mess you've gotten us into, Ollie!

How much do you know about augmentations? You see what happens whiten you mess with nature? Are you aware of herd compositions throughout this state and country that are a result of "messing with nature" as you say. This is a very complex situation we have, and some tough decisions have to be made. We as hunters have compounded the complexity of it all by our actions (yes include your precious mh program).  There were too many cited in muzzy, the archery debacle, and several mh citations last year. You act like it's a perfect program and it's a save all. The politics and logistics are the 2 biggest obstacles and 2 that aren't easily circumvented. That gives a little credibility to wdfw actions.

[T-Dozzer]

So what went down at the meeting today? I couldn't make it.

[Whitpirate]

My difficulty is the current MH is no longer accepting new blood.  I don't like special privilege for anyone.  The wildlife belong to all of us.

[KFhunter]

I was not aware of the problems with the MH program until this thread, I may need to redact my statements.

[sled]

My difficulty is the current MH is no longer accepting new blood.  I don't like special privilege for anyone.  The wildlife belong to all of us.

[pianoman9701]

I was not aware of the problems with the MH program until this thread, I may need to redact my statements.

This is precisely why I said that hunters with general tags could be considered, but they'd need to go through some kind of briefing, maybe even sign an agreement to follow the instructions of the hunt coordinator to the letter and to act in a manner which sheds a good light on our sport.

I took the MH course and worked hard for my certification. I don't believe that I should have all of the opportunities from wildlife damage situations, especially when so many animals are involved, as in this case. But, I do think that any participants should be vetted before we let them loose in a highly visible, possibly volatile scenario.

[Bob33]

My difficulty is the current MH is no longer accepting new blood.  I don't like special privilege for anyone.  The wildlife belong to all of us.

It opens January 1 to new applicants.

[skeeter 20i]

So what went down at the meeting today? I couldn't make it.

 

[BOWHUNTER45]

The comment that says ( wildlife belongs to all of us ) that's my whole point right their now ....favoring one user group is BS ...It really should be up to the landowner when it comes to what goes on his property ... there are so many options that I really do not have the perfect answer but I know I should be hunting the elk the roam the hills around my house 

[Boss .300 winmag]

"The odds of getting a jack-wad are greatly reduced by making it a master hunter controlled hunt.   
"Master Hunter" does not mean they are a better hunter, only that they took the initiative to prove their marksmanship skills, conservation efforts, volunteer work and some other stuff escaping me at the moment."

I think the odds are reduced. 

Master Hunters are subject to a zero tolerance policy: one game (of fish) violation and you're banned from the program for life. That's a pretty hefty incentive to be careful.

It's a bit like a college degree: many employers wants college graduates not necessarily for what they know, but because they believe the individual had the drive and discipline to complete something.  Do college graduates no more than the "average" person who didn't graduate? Maybe, maybe not but employers often use a degree as a gauge of the person.

If a landowner has a choice of giving hunting permission to someone he knows nothing about, or allowing someone who has gone through a special program that requires a fair amount of discipline and work and is expected to behave in a very ethical manner, the perception is often that he is better with the second option. Sure - there are lots of very ethical non master hunters, and certainly a few master hunters who aren't. Once they're busted they're gone, however.

  If You Need Incentive To (Be Careful) You Shouldn't Have A Hunting
 License At All.

 

[Boss .300 winmag]

I respectfully disagree bob. I will take experience and intimate local knowledge over master hunters. I would still require all hunters to be briefed on the given situation.  I have witnessed many of the failures in the mh program in this very area. Yes their mh privileges were revoked and several, yes several citations issued. I know it's a mix but I have seen more that  "can't " so to speak than those that are driven. The most driven hunters I know are not necessarily the"master" hunter mold (but I would consider them master hunters).

thats why my plan had locals/family that the farmer/landowners approved to hunt on thier land, and no one else!

[returnofsid]

Instead of bickering amongst fellow hunter about who should have got to hunt, why or why not, or arguing different options...all of us hunters need to focus on the fact that Washington hunters didn't get these opportunities...Feds came in, at night, and killed elk. That needs to be our main focus...getting to the bottom of this. Can we get some feedback from more who went to the meeting yesterday?

[Boss .300 winmag]

I have a buddy that tooka a cow through the MH program in this area. I think this is likely the best route to take/expand to solve the issue. It gives controlled harvest with straight forward guidelines. I wish you didn't have to be a MH to do it, but it may be the right tool for this problem...

MHs are a tool of the state DF&W. They could call in anyone they want to accomplish the goals they need to accomplish. In addition, they could send out a bulletin asking hunters to register for emergency free tags and have an orientation required before they can receive one. There's no shortage of free resources to accomplish what they need to accomplish. The problem is that the Department of Watchable Wildlife has to actually think of our state's 175,000 hunters as part of the solution. They don't, ever. In any situation where animals need to be culled, they reach for the purse strings instead of asking, "how can we make this a win-win for the state using hunters instead of throwing money at it?". The entire culture of the DFW needs to change and it needs to start at the top. If everyone isn't pounding their fists on their representatives' desks about this and about how the department is run in general, they should start immediately. We're only every going to lose if we don't seek to change the entire administration of this section of our government.

Piano ...your right its a tool ....and T  I Disagree ! Everyone who buys a tag  should have the same chances as the other ... I went to the meeting and it will be my last ...its the same old BS .. Indians done this Indians done that  What the hell have we done  What did our money do ? Who shot the sheeeet out of these elk back in the 8Os ...Ware kept saying how the Indians have helped Sooo much ...DAH !! tHEY SHOULD HELP BRING THEM BACK AND MANAGE THEM ...They are part of the problem why they were wiped out ...Now they have another 80 head that they have no idea where they came from !!! I thought they knew everything ....birrrrrr Dirrrrrrr !!! And now the elk are nocturnal  we have to have federal agents hunting with spotlights ...Give me a dang tag and I will gladly show you how nocturnal they are ...with a 100 gr wasp  all ...and another thing ...we have a serious problem with the elk but lets increase the herd  Here is another problem they have ...they give out so many tags but without permission from the landowner you are not going to fill them ....they want to kill a certain amount but for the amount of tags they are giving out does not come close to what they want to kill  So here is what I suggest ...CLOSE DOWN HWY 20 AND GIVE THE ELK BACK THERE LAND ,,,SAME WITH THE IDIANS .....OR KILL THEM ALL AND NO ONE WILL NEED TO BE PEEESED WHO GETS TO EAT THEM BECAUSE THEY ALL WILL BE GONE  THERE YA GO !  I will write my legislators ...they actually sounded like they cared about what happens or should be done !! Hopefully they will listen to some hunters ...because hunting is the only problem solver here !!! I stayed calm ...did not I ....

bh45 commentary on meeting, see above.