CURRENTLY WDFW FEDERAL AGENTS SHOOTING 15 bulls in Skagit River Unit!!!!

[pianoman9701]

Pianoman still waiting on the dna study to justify where you are so quick to criticize. Since you obviously know so much about the science of elk, a question, have you been published? I know many bios that are searching long and hard for answers that you seem to have all figured out.
 Your hoof rot comment touched a nerve too. To wish that suffering on any animal (especially the one I love the most) disgusts me to no end.

You keep commenting and blaming the relocation/augmentation. You are the only one with all the answers. Many people are and have dedicated thousands of hours to this problem (you play armchair quarterback and act like a biologist, which you may be). I have watched a specific herd grow from 26 to 140 with no st helens elk.
Have you been published comes from your vast animal science knowledge that you so willingly profess.

Yeah, I didn't see your remarks. Look, one of the first rules about conservation is that animals proliferate or don't in certain areas for very good reasons. Many times animals have been relocated with disastrous results. I think it's quite possible that's the case here. I don't have a degree but I do know a little something about conservation. As far as the hoof rot comment is concerned, the animals that were put into the Skagit River area came from the St Helens herd, as you know. I was simply stating that they may start showing hoof rot, being from the same herd that's having huge hoof rot problems now. That's really not a huge stretch of imagination. And, if you think you have a monopoly on loving elk, you don't. They're all I think about year 'round and I actually participate in regular conservation projects to help them. I sincerely hope you do too.

I'm really not sure why you got so butthurt by my comments unless you're working for the state and had something to do with moving these elk. But, I was stating my opinion just like everyone else. And, it's clear they're now having unintended consequences from bringing in more elk; the area is having car accidents and lots of cost to farmers. Get personal if you want, but I don't see why you need to. It's just a discussion. I do hold the DFW responsible for the problems associated with culling events in the past because ultimately, they ARE responsible for those. Whether it be the actions of individual hunters or the outcome of the event; they're in charge. See how you can post without getting personal? It's fairly easy. Try it. I'm going shooting now. Buh bye.

[pianoman9701]

Well Boss, if you're really lucky, the elk that were transported will be shown to have also transported the hoof rot and you can benefit from that, too. Moving animals is rarely a good idea in many, many ways.

This is the hoof rot comment that bothered me.

I'm sorry that you don't recognize sarcasm. 

[Tbar]

Yes I was there but as a volunteer. You come off as an internet know it all and are quick to discount the work of some pretty smart people. There have been many successes and failures when it comes to relocation.
You realize the wdfw is ultimately responsible for sportsmans bad decisions as magnified in 09. Everyone is looking for answers, you however seem to know all of them.

[go4itlab]

Seems like some like to stir the pot and I really question motives: I still stand by what I have heard. First hand not from a friend of friend that has a brother that has a friend that said...........
Although I would like to see more opportunism for for local hunters to harvest from this herd. Especially as I do have part of this herd in my local area (whatcom county). I don't see it happening anytime soon. I agree with with what another members opinion on how poorly a display of sport manship was displayed in 2009. I don't remember seeing any WDFG officers forcing them to surround and shoot, wound and allow the animals to suffer. All along a heavily traveled section of Hwy. Seems to me the best thing to do was to bring in shooters that are capable of making a clean and ethical kill. Whether they be master hunters or paid marksmen: From the footage on the news in "09" that was not the case. Those that took part in that hunt are to BLAME!!!!!!. If it wasn't for camera man that is associated with a news crew that was traveling home with his family from a trip to the Methow, they might have gotten away with it.
As for the farmers and the state maybe its time to look at putting up some real fencing in these trouble areas. Like the fencing used around the Elensberg, SW, and around Turnbull. Seems to work there, although they do have some escapement..... but has to be better that continually paying out to the farmers and indangering the people that travel through that area.


This is a direct copy and paste not doctored up one:

Skagit County Elk Conflict: Conflict Specialist Griffith was in contact with seven landowners this week regarding elk damages in the Day Creek, Concrete, and Hamilton areas. All but one is a commercial operation and Griffith will be issuing a total of 11 damage permits. The remaining landowner is a resident that has a few elk grazing on his front lawn at night. Griffith advised him on practices that the landowner could implement to discourage the elk from grazing on his lawn and issued him a few 12 gauge rubber slugs for aversive conditioning the elk.

I do believe the truth will prevail, be what ever it may be

[Tbar]

Btw I think if we had a general muzzy cow hunt with the 110 line as the boundary we probably would not be having this discussion. I would run it Aug. 1 to Feb 28. That too is an opinion.

[pianoman9701]

Yes I was there but as a volunteer. You come off as an internet know it all and are quick to discount the work of some pretty smart people. There have been many successes and failures when it comes to relocation.
You realize the wdfw is ultimately responsible for sportsmans bad decisions as magnified in 09. Everyone is looking for answers, you however seem to know all of them.

I'm glad you finally saw the light.

[jdw12885]

Bob, I don't think I understand your question. Are you saying you think it's possible that the Federal government took action regarding our state's wildlife without the DFW's cooperation or knowledge? If that's where you're coming from, I don't think that's even remotely possible. The feds will rarely take any action without the appropriate state agency at least getting a heads up, if not full participation in the operation.

Not at all. What I am saying is that WDFW is very aware of the negative public perception that can result from shooting elk. Organized hunters of any sort, versus essentially "hired professional exterminators" can play differently in the public's eye when it comes to removing numbers of problem wildlfe. I am in no way saying that I am in agreement with bringing in snipers. I am saying that I don't believe the decision was made lightly, nor was it done without any regard for licensed hunters.

All licensed hunting was stopped during the 2009 season because of the worldwide condemnation that resulted with the archery shootings that occurred off Highway 20. I believe the department is still very sensitive about what they do to cull the herd.

Sorry im a little late on this post, but the biggest issue the dfw faces and is very sensitive about are the INDIANS!! The Indians didn't want the "white man" shooting all "there elk" which raised too many problems between the dfw and the tribes which resulted in this fiasco!! They wouldn't give any land owner tags (damage) nor a drawing for bull tags because of the Indians! There entitled to 50% of all the elk....right....

[Houndhunter]

Bob, I don't think I understand your question. Are you saying you think it's possible that the Federal government took action regarding our state's wildlife without the DFW's cooperation or knowledge? If that's where you're coming from, I don't think that's even remotely possible. The feds will rarely take any action without the appropriate state agency at least getting a heads up, if not full participation in the operation.

Not at all. What I am saying is that WDFW is very aware of the negative public perception that can result from shooting elk. Organized hunters of any sort, versus essentially "hired professional exterminators" can play differently in the public's eye when it comes to removing numbers of problem wildlfe. I am in no way saying that I am in agreement with bringing in snipers. I am saying that I don't believe the decision was made lightly, nor was it done without any regard for licensed hunters.

All licensed hunting was stopped during the 2009 season because of the worldwide condemnation that resulted with the archery shootings that occurred off Highway 20. I believe the department is still very sensitive about what they do to cull the herd.

Sorry im a little late on this post, but the biggest issue the dfw faces and is very sensitive about are the INDIANS!! The Indians didn't want the "white man" shooting all "there elk" which raised too many problems between the dfw and the tribes which resulted in this fiasco!! They wouldn't give any land owner tags (damage) nor a drawing for bull tags because of the Indians! There entitled to 50% of all the elk....right....

Pretty lame huh, and now the tribes have diabetes because of us..........

[Tbar]

Bob, I don't think I understand your question. Are you saying you think it's possible that the Federal government took action regarding our state's wildlife without the DFW's cooperation or knowledge? If that's where you're coming from, I don't think that's even remotely possible. The feds will rarely take any action without the appropriate state agency at least getting a heads up, if not full participation in the operation.

Not at all. What I am saying is that WDFW is very aware of the negative public perception that can result from shooting elk. Organized hunters of any sort, versus essentially "hired professional exterminators" can play differently in the public's eye when it comes to removing numbers of problem wildlfe. I am in no way saying that I am in agreement with bringing in snipers. I am saying that I don't believe the decision was made lightly, nor was it done without any regard for licensed hunters.

All licensed hunting was stopped during the 2009 season because of the worldwide condemnation that resulted with the archery shootings that occurred off Highway 20. I believe the department is still very sensitive about what they do to cull the herd.

Sorry im a little late on this post, but the biggest issue the dfw faces and is very sensitive about are the INDIANS!! The Indians didn't want the "white man" shooting all "there elk" which raised too many problems between the dfw and the tribes which resulted in this fiasco!! They wouldn't give any land owner tags (damage) nor a drawing for bull tags because of the Indians! There entitled to 50% of all the elk....right....

It's way more complex than that. I don't think you know how many kill permits have been issued, but keep throwing blame around. A very uneducated comment.

[RB]

How does a guy get a USDA sniper job? Sounds like a good retirement gig cruise around in your motorhome living off wild game 

[jdw12885]

 

Bob, I don't think I understand your question. Are you saying you think it's possible that the Federal government took action regarding our state's wildlife without the DFW's cooperation or knowledge? If that's where you're coming from, I don't think that's even remotely possible. The feds will rarely take any action without the appropriate state agency at least getting a heads up, if not full participation in the operation.

Not at all. What I am saying is that WDFW is very aware of the negative public perception that can result from shooting elk. Organized hunters of any sort, versus essentially "hired professional exterminators" can play differently in the public's eye when it comes to removing numbers of problem wildlfe. I am in no way saying that I am in agreement with bringing in snipers. I am saying that I don't believe the decision was made lightly, nor was it done without any regard for licensed hunters.

All licensed hunting was stopped during the 2009 season because of the worldwide condemnation that resulted with the archery shootings that occurred off Highway 20. I believe the department is still very sensitive about what they do to cull the herd.

Sorry im a little late on this post, but the biggest issue the dfw faces and is very sensitive about are the INDIANS!! The Indians didn't want the "white man" shooting all "there elk" which raised too many problems between the dfw and the tribes which resulted in this fiasco!! They wouldn't give any land owner tags (damage) nor a drawing for bull tags because of the Indians! There entitled to 50% of all the elk....right....

Pretty lame huh, and now the tribes have diabetes because of us..........

[jdw12885]

Bob, I don't think I understand your question. Are you saying you think it's possible that the Federal government took action regarding our state's wildlife without the DFW's cooperation or knowledge? If that's where you're coming from, I don't think that's even remotely possible. The feds will rarely take any action without the appropriate state agency at least getting a heads up, if not full participation in the operation.

Not at all. What I am saying is that WDFW is very aware of the negative public perception that can result from shooting elk. Organized hunters of any sort, versus essentially "hired professional exterminators" can play differently in the public's eye when it comes to removing numbers of problem wildlfe. I am in no way saying that I am in agreement with bringing in snipers. I am saying that I don't believe the decision was made lightly, nor was it done without any regard for licensed hunters.

All licensed hunting was stopped during the 2009 season because of the worldwide condemnation that resulted with the archery shootings that occurred off Highway 20. I believe the department is still very sensitive about what they do to cull the herd.

Sorry im a little late on this post, but the biggest issue the dfw faces and is very sensitive about are the INDIANS!! The Indians didn't want the "white man" shooting all "there elk" which raised too many problems between the dfw and the tribes which resulted in this fiasco!! They wouldn't give any land owner tags (damage) nor a drawing for bull tags because of the Indians! There entitled to 50% of all the elk....right....

It's way more complex than that. I don't think you know how many kill permits have been issued, but keep throwing blame around. A very uneducated comment.

I sure know how many were issued on the day creek area.. where this whole topic was based off of.....So I would consider that a little on the educated side......

[Tbar]

15? Like in the press release? This problem didn't start last week and those aren't the first kill permits issued. Those aren't the first elk shot by an officer. I  think politics are an obstacle but far from the only one.
  Do you know how many elk were killed when it was a general muzzy hunt? I know several guys who tagged an elk every one of those years(including some dandy bulls). Do you know why that hunt ended? That hunt was the most effective solution to date. It would be even better if the 110 boundary was in effect.

[Nailed it]

The sad irony to this issue is "hunters" and  "sportsman"  are the root of many of the issues. When there was a general muzzy hunt in 4941 you had it pretty good (don't think you were cursing tribes when you were the only group harvesting).

Indians have never quit harvesting

[pianoman9701]

Yes I was there but as a volunteer. You come off as an internet know it all and are quick to discount the work of some pretty smart people. There have been many successes and failures when it comes to relocation.
You realize the wdfw is ultimately responsible for sportsmans bad decisions as magnified in 09. Everyone is looking for answers, you however seem to know all of them.

I really appreciate that you volunteered for this. I also think that because of the pride that you rightfully hold for doing a job well done, you think my comments somehow reflect on the hard conservation work that you did. They don't. I admire your volunteerism on this project. And, I have a hard time figuring out why you're not even more P-Od than I, seeing that you are among the guys who live there and should be getting the tags to help cull the problem animals instead of the gubmint just killing them and distributing the meat.

As far as the "work of smart people" is concerned, the wildlife conflicts in that area are an indication to me that the goals set for revitalization of that herd may have been set way too high. My opinion, and it's just that, is that the incredibly large number of wildlife/human conflicts bears me out. The animals didn't respond to the relocation that way the "smart people" intended and have now ended up in farmers' fields and back yards. One big consideration that may not have been considered heavily enough is that because of the changes to logging laws over the past three decades, the woods there can no longer support the size herd that it did previously. There's no longer enough forage and the elk now need to look elsewhere for food. Again, I believe (my opinion) that transporting more animals was not perhaps the wisest move.