Remington 700 SPS Varmit throwing Keyholes.....

[jpharcher]

I just got a NIB Remington 700 SPS in 204 Ruger, 26" heavy barrel, 1 in 12 twist. I topped it with a Nikon Monarch 4x16x42, bought 140 rounds of Hornady 40 grain Superperformance Varmit took it out to sight it in yesterday and was the most frustrated I have ever been trying to get it sighted in.
I put 40 rounds thru it (most from 50 yards), most holes in target were keyholes and could not get anything to group off of bipods and table.
I have now heard that 40 grains are to heavy for a 1 in 12 twist and should go to the 32 grain rounds?
Any experienced guys have any thoughts or advice?
Thanks

UPDATE:
The good news is I finally got a chance to go shoot some different factory loaded ammo and thankfully I am not going to have to ship it back to Remington for a new barrel.
HSM 39 grain Sierra Blitz King- 1 inch group at 100, 2 1/2"s at 200
Winchester 34 grain hollow point lubalux bullets- 1/2" groups at  100, 1 1/2" at 200.
Looking forward to trying my hand at reloading and see what it can do.
Anybody want to buy 60 rounds of Hornady Superformance 40 grains?

[wildweeds]

Probably not going to be of any help to you but I have a .204 in Savage predator 10 max 1, I've shot 40 through it with fioochi 32 grain vmax's and it shoots very very well.I've got half a dozen boxes of hornady ammo with the 40 grain vmax but haven't shot them yet.I also have the 1-12 twist in a 24 inch length.

[jpharcher]

The 1 in 12 using 40's is what I was told at 2 different gun shops so I then internet searched and saw that many people complained that the 40 grain just does not stabilize with a 1 in 12....I am going to get some different ammo and hope for the best.
I might have 6 boxes of 204 40 grain for sale soon...lol

[wildweeds]

Pretty wild I just did a quick check and the comments I saw all were thumbs down on 40 grain vmax,nosler ballistic tip just a hair better and 39 grain blitzkings seem to be the bees knees,a couple of votes for 35 grain bergers.

[jpharcher]

The 39 grain blitzkings is what I was told should do well, now are they available off the shelf or are just hand loads? I have to do some searching to answer that. I am looking for off the shelf cartridges for now, have all the reloading gear but have yet to use it

[Heredoggydoggy]

Although I have always used 32 grainers in my .20's, you should be doing better than that.  If you know someone with a borescope, see what it looks like inside.  I know a guy who has sent lots of Remington 700 rifles back to the factory because of bad barrels.  You should be sighting in a .204 at a MINIMUM of 150 yards, unless you are just trying to get the scope "on the paper". 

[204chucknorris]

I have a Savage 204 with 26 inch barrel shooting 39 seirras and 40 V-Max' with no issues. I have had this rifle for many years and have shot hundreds.  I had heard the same about 40gr bullets is 1-12 but have proof this is not true. Maybe your gun doesn't like the super performance ?

[wildweeds]

Your in the know Chuck, what is the scuttlebut on 40 v maxers out of a 24 inch barrell? How much does difference in barrell length play? I'm laid up off of work,Think I'll do a test tommorrow and go shoot a few groups of the 40's to see the difference firsthand if there is any.The thing is dialed on the 32's

I have a Savage 204 with 26 inch barrel shooting 39 seirras and 40 V-Max' with no issues. I have had this rifle for many years and have shot hundreds.  I had heard the same about 40gr bullets is 1-12 but have proof this is not true. Maybe your gun doesn't like the super performance ?

[jpharcher]

Yes, the 50 yards was just trying to get it on paper. My goal was to zero for 200.

[CAMPMEAT]

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. My friend has one and shoots 40 grainers with zero issues.

[Heredoggydoggy]

Yes, the 50 yards was just trying to get it on paper. My goal was to zero for 200.

I thought so.  Still, factory ammo for the .204 is made in 40 and 32 grain bullet loadings.  Your gun should shoot either one well.  If it's keyholing, something is definitely wrong!

[wildweeds]

Found a commercial loading of the 39 grainers, out of stock of course but it's possible. Federal Premium Vital-Shok Rifle Ammunition P204A, 204 Ruger, Sierra BlitzKing, 39 GR, 3750 fps, 20 Rd/bx

[CAMPMEAT]

What is keyholing ? Show me a picture so I know what you're talking about. Nobody I know, knows what it is.......

[jpharcher]

definately keyholed almost every shot....think the couple that shot normal were flukes.

[jpharcher]

hole looks like bullet went thru sideways instead of point first. I will try to post some pics but not sure I can make work.

[Heredoggydoggy]

hole looks like bullet went thru sideways instead of point first. I will try to post some pics but not sure I can make work.

Yup, that's what's called "Keyholing".

[jpharcher]

thanks for the info on the 39 grains. The local Warehouse had a couple of other brands and weights of 204, will pick up a box or 2 of each and see what happens. I was told over at sportco that they have been seeing a lot of junk barrels coming in on the various remington 700's....hope it's just a dislike for the 40 grain hornady's instead.
Nt sure when I will get out again, dark by the time I get home and still have an elk and deer tag for muzzle....bad season for getting in the woods.

[CAMPMEAT]

hole looks like bullet went thru sideways instead of point first. I will try to post some pics but not sure I can make work.

Yup, that's what's called "Keyholing".

Thanks Dave.....

[wildweeds]

Fiochi also loads a 40 grain pointed soft point,And winchester offers up a 34 grain PSP as well.Key is finding it in stock.

[jay.sharkbait]

I'm just curious.....

If you do this what does it look like? Does it swallow the bullet all the way to the case?

[Blacktail Sniper]

Key hole impact pic:

[jpharcher]

Jay,
Was that inserted into the muzzle?

[jay.sharkbait]

Jay,
Was that inserted into the muzzle?

Yes

[Heredoggydoggy]

thanks for the info on the 39 grains. The local Warehouse had a couple of other brands and weights of 204, will pick up a box or 2 of each and see what happens. I was told over at sportco that they have been seeing a lot of junk barrels coming in on the various remington 700's....hope it's just a dislike for the 40 grain hornady's instead.
Nt sure when I will get out again, dark by the time I get home and still have an elk and deer tag for muzzle....bad season for getting in the woods.

Yeah, it's dark at 4:30 pm now.  I hate it!  The guy I talked to said he had a gunsmith run a borescope through one of his 700 Rem. barrels, and the rifling went from a twist to straight for a ways half way down the bore, then went back to twist.  He figured that was why it wouldn't group worth a darn.  Hope yours is better, but the prognosis is not good.  Fortunately, Remington's warranty is good.

[jpharcher]

Yes, fits all the way to the case from the muzzle, and even feels loose inserted

[jay.sharkbait]

Yes, fits all the way to the case from the muzzle, and even feels loose inserted

What is the marking on the barrel? .204 or maybe .223?

You don't have a .223 or .22-250 or anything similar laying around to try?

[CAMPMEAT]

Key hole impact pic:

Thanks, now I know.

[Fowlweather25]

Definitely a barrel issue then. You shouldnt be able to go all the way to the brass. I would get ahold of Remington. either that or its not a .204. Maybe a .220

[jpharcher]

I had to laugh but went and looked, yes, marked 204 Ruger, The next size up I have would be 22 LR, then 270.

[jay.sharkbait]

I had to laugh but went and looked, yes, marked 204 Ruger, The next size up I have would be 22 LR, then 270.

.22 lr is around .222

Have a look at that.

I'll bet a .223 barrel blank got into the .204 production line.

[Heredoggydoggy]

I had to laugh but went and looked, yes, marked 204 Ruger, The next size up I have would be 22 LR, then 270.

.22 lr is around .222

Have a look at that.

I'll bet a .223 barrel blank got into the .204 production line.

   Sounds like a .223 barrel got chambered and stamped "204 Ruger"  A 204 Ruger case is too long to chamber in a 223 barrel/chamber.

[longrangekiller]

very strange i wanna hear the outcome on this one 

[jpharcher]

I am at a lose to where to even go at this point? outer case measures .231, inner .205 on the fired brass- no noticable over flaring. Tried to measure the inner id of barrel- is it between the lands or land to land?

[Heredoggydoggy]

All the fired bullets I've seen looked like the bullet barely touched the grooves but was well grooved from the lands.  Depending on the barrel manufacturer, the lands should be smaller, but the groove diameter should be close to the caliber.  Therefore if you could put an unfired bullet all the way into the bore, the bore is too big!

[jpharcher]

Guess I'll contact Remington and see how to proceed.....

[wildweeds]

I just checked my savage that shoots the 32's killer with a 40 grain Vmax factory hornady  it went all the way to the muzzle,without force,but it was not loose couple thou clearance maybe?

Definitely a barrel issue then. You shouldnt be able to go all the way to the brass. I would get ahold of Remington. either that or its not a .204. Maybe a .220

[Heredoggydoggy]

Guess I'll contact Remington and see how to proceed.....

   Good idea.  They may even send a box to ship it in, and pay the shipping--both ways! 

One more thing--remove any custom items from the gun before you return it, or you might not get them back.  Some benchrest guys I talked to sent guns in to the manufacturer with expensive triggers in them and got the guns back with stock triggers, not the ones they sent!

[jpharcher]

I measured one of the 40 grain v max.....  .199 diameter, seems a little off for a .204. I will get some different ammo and give it another go and if that doesn't work I guess Remington and I are going to get to know a lot of each other

[204chucknorris]

It could be that the bullet is seated to deep in the case for your barrel and in turn causes instability when fired?  Just a crazy thought. I have heard of some people have 204's that simply don't like 40gr bullets? I also shot some HSM 40 gr beger ammo and it shot fair? It likes federal premium 38 Sierra or Hornady 40gr. non super performance. Otherwise I just reload. Completely different caliber but my 223 with a 1-9 twist doesn't like 55gr bullets but loves 60-69. yet my brother in laws 223 loves 55gr. Crazy but it is fact.


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[Heredoggydoggy]

It could be that the bullet is seated to deep in the case for your barrel and in turn causes instability when fired?  Just a crazy thought. I have heard of some people have 204's that simply don't like 40gr bullets? I also shot some HSM 40 gr beger ammo and it shot fair? It likes federal premium 38 Sierra or Hornady 40gr. non super performance. Otherwise I just reload. Completely different caliber but my 223 with a 1-9 twist doesn't like 55gr bullets but loves 60-69. yet my brother in laws 223 loves 55gr. Crazy but it is fact.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sometimes bullets do make a difference.  My .223 1 in 9 shoots 50 grain bullets good-55's better, and 60's great!
when I was working up a load for my K-Hornet, I got some 36 grain Varmint Grenades.  I couldn't even get them on the paper, let alone the bullseye!  I got on the Barnes website, punched up the cartridge, and found that the only bullet they recommended was the 30 grain Varmint Grenade.  So I got some, and they grouped much better!

[carpsniperg2]

  twist rate and bullet weights do really make a difference. I had a 25-06 that would key hole with anything 110g+ but shoot lights out with the lighter weight bullets.

[jay.sharkbait]

But to keyhole like that...... something isn't right.

I thought about seating depth, but why would the factory seat that deep?

[wildweeds]

Link to another forum where the keyholing is the topic. http://www.204ruger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7132

[wildweeds]

And another to look at. http://www.204ruger.com/204_ammo.php

[Longranger]

Hi I'm new here but my Thompson contender .233rem with any bullet weight over 55gns would do the same thing keyholes and when I switched to 55gns hole through hole. Something to consider try different ammo in different weights prob just a ammo issue.

[jpharcher]

Longranger,
That is my goal, just have to get out of work at some point with some daylight left to give some different rounds a chance.
Plan on trying the 39 grain Sierra's and the 32 grain hornady's

[jpharcher]

updated.....

[KenPCPilot]

I have the same rifle in .22-250.  Remington triggers are not that great.  I just replaced mine with the Jewel trigger and Wow what a shooter.  However the trigger on my  Remington 700 VTR .308 is very good.  I am a little confused how the same trigger is so different.  That would be my suggestion if you are at all concerned about the trigger.  Best $200 I have spent in a while.  These rifles are a blast in eastern Washington where you can really get some distance shooting. 

[jpharcher]

Ken,
Trying to get into coyotes, living over here on the wet side its a tough go but am open to any pointers you have for east side yotes.
I might look at a trigger job in the near future, right now I am just happy that it was just a disagreement between the Superformance 40's and the 1/12 twist.