snagging

[pens fan]

A co worker said a gamie was going to give him a ticket if he continued using two hands when he set the hook.
I have heard something similar while fishing the Tilton. Where in the regs does it talk about snagging techniques?

[highmuley]

A co worker said a gamie was going to give him a ticket if he continued using two hands when he set the hook.
I have heard something similar while fishing the Tilton. Where in the regs does it talk about snagging techniques?

I can't tell you exactly what page. There is a section defining "snagging". None of us can even begin to guess your coworkers intentions but using 2 hands to set a hook with a salmon rod does look a little suspicious (thats exerting a lot of unnecessary force). It wouldn't have been brought up by a gamey if people didn't snag salmon on a regular. That action is frowned upon on EVERY salmon/steelhead river. My best advice,  if he doesn't want to be harassed by gameys or other sportsman (and woman), is to remove that "hook set action" from their vocabulary.   

[pens fan]

So there is something in the regs about it.

[Bullkllr]

A co worker said a gamie was going to give him a ticket if he continued using two hands when he set the hook.
I have heard something similar while fishing the Tilton. Where in the regs does it talk about snagging techniques?

I can't tell you exactly what page. There is a section defining "snagging". None of us can even begin to guess your coworkers intentions but using 2 hands to set a hook with a salmon rod does look a little suspicious (thats exerting a lot of unnecessary force). It wouldn't have been brought up by a gamey if people didn't snag salmon on a regular. That action is frowned upon on EVERY salmon/steelhead river. My best advice,  if he doesn't want to be harassed by gameys or other sportsman (and woman), is to remove that "hook set action" from their vocabulary.   

From the regs, pg. 11:
Snagging= Attempting to take fish with a hook
and line in such a way that the fish does not
voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. In
freshwater, it is illegal to possess any fish
hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth or
on the head.

I imagine setting the hook excessively could be construed as attempting to snag, even with legal gear.

[pens fan]

Im not opposed to the methods...i just dont like not having specific rules in print about it. Leaving it up to a gamie's discretion is just plain wrong.

[Hunterman]

I hope your co-worker told the gammie to pack sand. Who gives a rats back side if a person uses 1, od 2 hand to set a hook    This is just what I was saying in another thread about game wardens trying the bully tactics. I had on out at Westport threaten to write me a ticket for "Using Salmon Catching Gear" while fishing for bottom fish. Informed him just were he could put his salmon fishing gear ( in no uncertain terms)

Hunterman(Tony)

[The Weazle]

I hope your co-worker told the gammie to pack sand. Who gives a rats back side if a person uses 1, od 2 hand to set a hook    This is just what I was saying in another thread about game wardens trying the bully tactics. I had on out at Westport threaten to write me a ticket for "Using Salmon Catching Gear" while fishing for bottom fish. Informed him just were he could put his salmon fishing gear ( in no uncertain terms)

Hunterman(Tony)

Yeah…I use both hands to set the hook, with all the barbless hooks, etc, I am gonna bury that hook as deep as I can.  I guess I usually use one hand until the other gets there to stabilize the rod and get to cranking, but that gamey is reaching.  I would ask him to show me in the regs where it said I can't use two hands, or prepare his argument for a judge.  I hate cops/wardens/etc that are A@@holes just to be A@@holes...

[highmuley]

I completely agree with what you folks are sayin but I guess it would depend on were the "hook set" occurs. If its on a hit in the middle of your drift or at the end of your drift. People do the two handed aggressive "hook set" at the end with the intention of hopefully snagging a fish. But like I said. ..we can't even pretend to know his intent. And Tony, I've been following the "police state" thread and am aware of were your coming from. Cant say i totally disagree.

[Birdguy]

I have an 11 year old son who uses two hands to set the hook on bluegill, he would use four hands if he had them  . I got whacked last year trout fishing when he was sure he had a bite and ripped that pole back into the side of my head  . I guess he/we would be questioned anytime he is seen. I think that is one of his favorite things about fishing. We do not do much river fishing yet but was his swimming skills increase we will do more.

[Fishaholic]

I hope your co-worker told the gammie to pack sand. Who gives a rats back side if a person uses 1, od 2 hand to set a hook    This is just what I was saying in another thread about game wardens trying the bully tactics. I had on out at Westport threaten to write me a ticket for "Using Salmon Catching Gear" while fishing for bottom fish. Informed him just were he could put his salmon fishing gear ( in no uncertain terms)

Hunterman(Tony)

The gameys out in westport think they know everything. I have corrected  a few of them with the rules book. Best thing to do is carry a rule book in  a zip log bag so you can check a rule. Its just so much easyer  when dealing with game officers .




My son also fishes marlin style when he is trout fishing. when the bobber goes down he jerks up as hard as he can.

[Hunterman]

I hope your co-worker told the gammie to pack sand. Who gives a rats back side if a person uses 1, od 2 hand to set a hook    This is just what I was saying in another thread about game wardens trying the bully tactics. I had on out at Westport threaten to write me a ticket for "Using Salmon Catching Gear" while fishing for bottom fish. Informed him just were he could put his salmon fishing gear ( in no uncertain terms)

Hunterman(Tony)

The gameys out in westport think they know everything. I have corrected  a few of them with the rules book. Best thing to do is carry a rule book in  a zip log bag so you can check a rule. Its just so much easyer  when dealing with game officers .




My son also fishes marlin style when he is trout fishing. when the bobber goes down he jerks up as hard as he can.

Did that with a few choice word to go long with it. My nephew that was with me thought I was going to jail, when I told Mr. Gammie were to go, and moved the boat and went back to fishing.

Hunterman(Tony)

[snowpack]

That gamey is a _____ moron.  He needs a drug test because I imagine he is using what he confiscates.  Using two hands to set a hook is fine, not snagging-- give me a break.  No wonder people think more and more of the LEOs as a joke. 

[akirkland]

I use two hands all the time. You've never drifted eggs or float a bobber with pole in hand and other hand on the handle of the reel? Thats two handle. This is the kind of crap that pisses me off. Fishing legally and a fish cop wants to bust your balls over LEGAL FISHING TECHNIQUES. I've used two hands on the pole hooking, and running up the beach numerous times.

[Antlershed]

I like how everyone quickly jumps all over the gamey while giving the fisherman the benefit of the doubt. My guess is the warden wouldn't have had an issue if there wasn't excessive hook setting taking place.   

[rtspring]

I like how everyone quickly jumps all over the gamey while giving the fisherman the benefit of the doubt. My guess is the warden wouldn't have had an issue if there wasn't excessive hook setting taking place.   

Some of us are fed up with gamies! Wth do you expect..  They try to bully people all the time because they wear a badge... 

[Jburke]

I like how everyone quickly jumps all over the gamey while giving the fisherman the benefit of the doubt. My guess is the warden wouldn't have had an issue if there wasn't excessive hook setting taking place.   

Some of us are fed up with gamies! Wth do you expect..  They try to bully people all the time because they wear a badge...

I know you have had your issues with LE, but I have NEVER had any bad interactions with any LE.  Even the local warden that everyone thinks is a jerk.  Been a pleasant interaction each time I have dealt with her.  I think the hatred for LE clouds peoples judgment and then they are all evil.   

[Fishaholic]

Its only on the west size the LE act this way. I was fishing  at little goose park or whatever it was and a game officer was decent to me. I come back over here and I instantly have problems out in westport. 

[akirkland]

I have never had a bad encounter with a game warden. They have all been pleasant. But dont tell me how to fish legally or threaten to fine me for the way I am legally fishing. Then I will buck.

[Bullkllr]

I like how everyone quickly jumps all over the gamey while giving the fisherman the benefit of the doubt. My guess is the warden wouldn't have had an issue if there wasn't excessive hook setting taking place.   

Without knowing exactly what was going on in this particular scenario, I would say this makes sense.

Retaining snagged fish is illegal. Fishing with illegal (snagging) gear is illegal. Attempting to snag fish, even with legal gear, has always been illegal. Nothing new here.

It may have been a poor choice of words on the part of the game warden. Setting a hook with 2 hands is clearly not illegal, but excessively setting the hook in an attempt to snag fish is illegal. Judgement call on the part of the officer, obviously. But that happens in law enforcement all of the time. I don't think "attempting to snag with legal gear" where no snagged fish are retained is commonly ticketed or prosecuted due to obvious evidence issues. My

[Jonathan_S]

I hope your co-worker told the gammie to pack sand. Who gives a rats back side if a person uses 1, od 2 hand to set a hook    This is just what I was saying in another thread about game wardens trying the bully tactics. I had on out at Westport threaten to write me a ticket for "Using Salmon Catching Gear" while fishing for bottom fish. Informed him just were he could put his salmon fishing gear ( in no uncertain terms)

Hunterman(Tony)

The gameys out in westport think they know everything. I have corrected  a few of them with the rules book. Best thing to do is carry a rule book in  a zip log bag so you can check a rule. Its just so much easyer  when dealing with game officers .




My son also fishes marlin style when he is trout fishing. when the bobber goes down he jerks up as hard as he can.

I don't think that the printed regulations have autonomous legal authority do they?  Not trying to be a critic but I'd hate to see someone get into trouble using that as their only source. 

[Antlershed]

I like how everyone quickly jumps all over the gamey while giving the fisherman the benefit of the doubt. My guess is the warden wouldn't have had an issue if there wasn't excessive hook setting taking place.   

Some of us are fed up with gamies! Wth do you expect..  They try to bully people all the time because they wear a badge...

I have never had a bad interaction with a warden or felt bullied, whether it was fishing or hunting. I realize you have had your issues, but does that make every single one of them an A-hole? I know there are some who deservedly have a bad rep...

If the fisherman in question was setting the hook 3-4 times per drift like you see all the time, especially this time of year, then I am glad the warden stepped in and said something. Like was mentioned, maybe poor wording on the officer's part, but if the guy was setting the hook on a legitimate bite but used two hands, I doubt the warden would have said anything. 

[Button Nubbs]

I like how everyone quickly jumps all over the gamey while giving the fisherman the benefit of the doubt. My guess is the warden wouldn't have had an issue if there wasn't excessive hook setting taking place.   

I think we have a winner. Exactly what I was gonna say.

[The Weazle]

I like how everyone quickly jumps all over the gamey while giving the fisherman the benefit of the doubt. My guess is the warden wouldn't have had an issue if there wasn't excessive hook setting taking place.   

I think we have a winner. Exactly what I was gonna say.

The only pleasant experience I've ever had with a gamey was getting a ticket.  It was my fault, I was polite, and he was polite, as he wrote me a fine for fishing with a barbed hook for bottom fish in Puget Sound the year it went all barbless.  I really didn't read the new regs, he caught me, he wrote me a ticket (he even gave me a break, because I was using a treble hook with three barbs on it, for $225 worth of fines, but he wrote me for one).  The whole experience was actually quite nice.  Every encounter since then, they are all mostly jerky acting if they can't find reason to ticket you.  Just my experience any way.


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[pens fan]

So, there is nothin in the regs describing "snagging motions?"
The gamies can just make up what they feel is a snagging motion?
All i see is gear rules. 

[Bullkllr]

So, there is nothin in the regs describing "snagging motions?"
The gamies can just make up what they feel is a snagging motion?
All i see is gear rules. 

From the regs, pg. 11:
Snagging= Attempting to take fish with a hook
and line in such a way that the fish does not
voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. In
freshwater, it is illegal to possess any fish
hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth or
on the head.

Many laws require judgement:
How far does a negligent driver have to swerve out of his/her lane to be driving negligently?
If a person is target practicing, how close do they need to shoot toward a house or person before it could be called a crime?

Your buddy looked like he might be trying to snag fish and got a warning. What's the worry? Setting the hook repeatedly normally doesn't catch more fish (in the mouth) anyway.

[pens fan]

Like i said, i have no problems with sacking people for snagging. I just wanted to see where it was printed. Thank you for that!

I also still do not like vagueness in law. But its in print and thats good enough for me.

[pens fan]

See, in bass fishing, some tactics could be deemed snagging, where one is merely enticing a strike. Now, how anyone can tell me that making a hookset at the end of a cast is not enticing a bite is beyond me.

[highmuley]

See, in bass fishing, some tactics could be deemed snagging, where one is merely enticing a strike. Now, how anyone can tell me that making a hookset at the end of a cast is not enticing a bite is beyond me.

Its all up to interpretation. Same as "flossin". Some people will complain if you use a leader over 5'. Others have the opinion that salmon don't "feed" in the river so technically its ALL snagging. Other rivers have rules on what is considered "caught" (hook must be from the gill plates forward, etc.). I also believe this rule is more designed for salmon and steelhead. "Ditch pickles" (freshwater bass) are not as much of a priority, although you probably will never here a gamey say that.

[Antlershed]

See, in bass fishing, some tactics could be deemed snagging, where one is merely enticing a strike. Now, how anyone can tell me that making a hookset at the end of a cast is not enticing a bite is beyond me.

Are you saying that setting the hook at the end of every drift is a valid method to get the fish to strike after the fact?

[pens fan]

Why not? If the fish are indeed "biting", this would stimulate a strike, just like twitching a worm in the last few feet of reeling in while fishing for "ditch fish", right?

If not, then that means the salmon are not feeding, and the only way to catch one would be pure happenstance that the hook would find its way into its mouth.
 Many who swear this is true, then doing so would entice a strike, right?

[pens fan]

After all, its a matter of interpretation, right?

[Button Nubbs]

Why not? If the fish are indeed "biting", this would stimulate a strike, just like twitching a worm in the last few feet of reeling in while fishing for "ditch fish", right?

If not, then that means the salmon are not feeding, and the only way to catch one would be pure happenstance that the hook would find its way into its mouth.
 Many who swear this is true, then doing so would entice a strike, right?

This argument is way off base.

[gaddy]

say you are jigging a Krokodile spoon for kings. rip, settle, rip, settle etc... & hang on to that pole because they will hit on the settle (as instructed  by a guide on the Columbia) would this be considered attempting to snag as you are continuously jerking your rod ?

[snowpack]

say you are jigging a Krokodile spoon for kings. rip, settle, rip, settle etc... & hang on to that pole because they will hit on the settle (as instructed  by a guide on the Columbia) would this be considered attempting to snag as you are continuously jerking your rod ?

If the gamey deems it so.  Makes you wonder if it was another warden that wasn't exposed to any of the outdoors until he was hired on as a game warden.

[Antlershed]

Why not? If the fish are indeed "biting", this would stimulate a strike, just like twitching a worm in the last few feet of reeling in while fishing for "ditch fish", right?

If not, then that means the salmon are not feeding, and the only way to catch one would be pure happenstance that the hook would find its way into its mouth.
 Many who swear this is true, then doing so would entice a strike, right?

Salmon do indeed still feed once they hit fresh water. That has been proven time and time again. However, ripping a corky and yarn past their face, IMO, is not going to entice them to bite. Take any terminal fishery that is saturated with "grip and rip" guys...you can be nailing fish all morning on eggs, but as soon as the rippers show up the bite turns off. I do know fish will bite corky and yarn if given the proper presentation, but ripping it past them is NOT the proper presentation. 

As far as fishing lures that are meant to be "jigged"...I really don't care what someone has on the end of their rod for gear...take into account where they are fishing (wide open water like the sound, or a pool in a river like the Skok where you can see every fish), and within 5 minutes of watching them you will know if they are trying to snag fish or not.

[wildmanoutdoors]

Wow! Thats all I have. 

[JCClement]

Without being there, I would guess that he was doing something stupid.  I've fished quite a few areas, with LEO's around and without, and have never been accused of snagging.

Maybe I wasn't doing it right? 

[deltaops]

So using a Buzz Bomb would be considered "attempting to snag"? Or any other jigging methods?

I am again confused. I fish using a lot of different methods and learn from each method. I do not attempt to snag nor would I even try. I have snagged fish before, not on purpose, but I have using a marabou jig catching kokes. Of course I released the fish and always will if it is not a legal catch. If a Warden was watching me, I suppose he would think I was trying to snag fish, but if he watched me the entire time he would notice I was not doing anything illegal.

"Snagging= Attempting to take fish with a hook
and line in such a way that the fish does not
voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. In
freshwater, it is illegal to possess any fish
hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth or
on the head."

Just that definition alone means that a lot of people are guilty of snagging when they jig.

"it is illegal to possess any fish
hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth or
on the head"

With the last statement I would assume that they know accidents will happen and one would snag a fish but not on purpose. So if I was fishing in freshwater and using a jig method and a Warden said he would ticket me fro snagging, that Warden would be told to pack sand and move on.

It doesn't matter how one fishes, sometimes snagging happens. One just has to make sure he does the legal thing and returns the fish to the water. If you do not, then and only then can you be cited for snagging.

[Antlershed]

I was not saying that jigging=snagging. If you were using a buzz bomb or pt Wilson dart in a terminal fishery, I think they would probably watch you pretty closely though. This is where I believe they have to use their judgement to determine intent, but it is usually pretty black and white.

[Antlershed]

Wow! Thats all I have. 

[pens fan]

I apologize for going on a tangent. I can't attest for my coworkers actions, i was not there. He is new to fishing salmon and was merely doing what everyone else was, and how he was told to fish. He asked me about what the regs were about this. I said i could not find anything, so i asked here.
In my little world, i have no room for vague laws left to the descretion of some LEO who, under any court, thier judgement is held higher than mine. And yet, we hear of " oh, maybe he is having a bad day." That is no excuse for harassment or Napolean attitudes i have witnessed and heard of by especially game wardens.
I have never recieved a citation for fishing or hunting ever. But everytime i encounter a gamie, its stressful because they look for any violation, and look.at any they find as complete premeditated intention of violation. Most of them are decent and professional, but some use psych techniques ( ie, unloading your over under to check and.see if it can hold three shells) to trip someone up, make them say stupid things, etc.
So, if there is not any definitative description of what "snagging" is, i prefer to not leave it to a high paid professional who should not allow his personal problems dictate how he administers citations.
With that, i am leaving this thread to die

[Boss .300 winmag]

I didn't notice tangent, your ok. 

[Bullkllr]

Yeah, it's gotten a little nebulous. And what has been discussed probably has little to do with the original situation.

In the real world scenario, it probably is a lot more black and white than what the regs say (ie, "attempting to snag"). Having been about as involved as one can be in sport fishing Washington State rivers for the last 40 years, I have never once heard of any person being ticketed for "attempting to snag" any fish. Keeping snag fish, yes. Fishing with illegal gear, check. But not once for attempting to snag fish with legal gear.

Also real world, setting the hook with both hands (rather vigorously, I assume) at the end of a drift, in a river salmon scenario IS attempting to snag fish; It Is Known. I can imagine a warden issuing a verbal for this, but any warden would be hard pressed to make a cited violation stand up unless there was other evidence like retained snag fish or illegal gear.

[buckfvr]

I spent a great deal of time fishing in Wa and Or from the 70s til about 8 years ago.  Most of it was on sw rivers and the Columbia, and a few of the north coastal rivers in or.

I believe I saw it all....or atleast most of it.  Maybe others and wardens saw more.  If they did, then my guess is they get to a point where they can no longer be as congenial as maybe they should be to maintain their professionalism.  I know Id personally get fed up with the same constant offenses and lies that go with them.

Using jigs of any kind, I will give them its not difficult to understand if they are fishing the jig or using it to snag.  Great example of that would be how salmon fishing used to be at Hood River, fishing the mouth of the WHite Salmon.

I will say, not all fishermen break rules, not even close.....but there sure as heck is alot that do, and I believe we all know some.

I think guys need to read regs and ask questions before engaging some of the questionable fisheries to avoid problems. 

How about the slough at Shafer Park up the Satsop ?any of you remember that debacle in the fall when the silver and chum run collided ???How many guys can hold up their hands and say they werent snagging in there   Liars !!!!!all Liars !!!!!!   

[wafisherman]

There is a big difference in snagging vs jigging.  You definitely know which one you are trying to do...  and anyone watching you can figure it out pretty easily as well.  Same with flossing (intentionally snagging in the face area).

Those who do that garbage are missing out big time.  A large percentage of my salmon and some of my steelhead have been taken in situations where I was able to actually see the take.  Watching a big fish come flying after your spoon, spinner, fly, jig or whatever is real rush and will test your nerves (have to resist setting the hood too soon).  Even bobber and jig fishing is better that way - seeing that bobber go down and setting the hook and then feeling that head shake from a huge steelhead is awesome.

Flossing - you have to have the right feel for the 'take' and\or just set the hook every few seconds or at the end of the drift hoping to cram that hook into a fishes mouth - almost anti-climactic.  And ripping that jig into the side or tail of a fish just takes away from what it should feel like - where fish is the one doing to ripping as it tries to destroy the lure with prejudice!  Not to mention how much it sucks to have to deal with a tail hooked fish. 

[MatthewHunter98]

hey if he reals that fish in with the hook in its mouth, mr. GW can't do anything about that. the fish took the hook. i would be feariouse if i got a ticket for 2 hand setting, with the hook in the mouth. well hey thats what courts for!

[deltaops]

I was not saying that jigging=snagging. If you were using a buzz bomb or pt Wilson dart in a terminal fishery, I think they would probably watch you pretty closely though. This is where I believe they have to use their judgement to determine intent, but it is usually pretty black and white.

I know and I hope nobody thinks I was accusing them of saying it. I actually went to the regs and read the definition just to verify, then did a copy and paste from the regs.

Depending on what I am fishing for, if I feel the slightest bump, I am trying to set the hook. I am sure I have been watched but don't know for sure. I have only seen two wardens in my life and only one of them was in the field when I was 14. The last one I seen was at the Hunters Ed course. The place I usually fish its usually a LEO that shows up looking for people drinking when they shouldn't be.