Salmon, Idaho's 1st Annual Wolf & Coyote Derby, Dec 28-29

[bearpaw]

Some members always seem to try and paint other members as "knuckle dragging Neanderthals" or something of the sort when they are opposed to the "preferred" wolf management practices of the states. Then they try to marginalize the effects wolves are having on the herds in areas where the moose are almost nonexistent and the elk herds are at 10% to 20% of their historic level. At the same time they try to come across as the "reasonable" hunters and their philosophy is going to save hunting.

I've got news for them, it's not working. Washington is the prime example, the more we try to make hunters look like we are ever sensitive to the anti-hunter, the more it works in the anti-hunters favor and the general public thinks hunting must not be that great of thing if we have to pamper it's appearance.

We need derbies on a regular basis and we need to talk about the ill effects of wolves, coyotes, cougars, and other predators. We also need to advertise hunting in many more ways than we do. It's a great family activity that benefits and strengthens the family. We humans are all animals, just like any other animal we must find other food to eat and hunting is at the heart of that basic need.

I'm not saying we need to remove predators from the face of the earth, but we do need to do a heck of a lot better job of managing them. The Washington model of pampering hunting to make it look better to the non-hunting public is backfiring and I think the present state of affairs in this state verses the state of affairs in Idaho or Montana where hunting and the need for hunting is more commonly talked about is proof of that. 

[BOWHUNTER45]

Ok I am game, your approach is back firing.

x2

[boneaddict]

I'm a little tired of pu$$y footing around myself.   I am sick of their feelings.    They need to know what is happening.  I happen to enjoy the outdoors and these bunny chasers don't have a clue.   Isnt there a whale somewhere that needs protecting or a starfish dieing off.   

[JLS]

I'm a little tired of pu$$y footing around myself.   I am sick of their feelings.    They need to know what is happening.  I happen to enjoy the outdoors and these bunny chasers don't have a clue.   Isnt there a whale somewhere that needs protecting or a starfish dieing off.   

I don't pu$$y foot around either Doug.  I helped one of my daughters make a photo collage of her deer hunt this year for when she was the highlighted student of the month.  One photo included a dead deer of all things.  Her teacher thought it was a very tasteful display and complimented her on it.

I could care less about the anti hunters.  I care very much about the majority of the population that does not hunt, but can certainly support and accept it (and votes).

[JLS]

Some members always seem to try and paint other members as "knuckle dragging Neanderthals" or something of the sort when they are opposed to the "preferred" wolf management practices of the states.

When someone tries to equate wolves with child molesters and rapists, then yes they are behaving as a knuckle dragging redneck.

Also, I fully support open wolf hunting as ID, WY, and MT do.  I have very vocally supported the same in WA.

[bearpaw]

The WDFW tries to hide coyote derbies and other contests in this state. I think they should be supporting these coyote derbies, fishing contests, and big buck derbies.

The goal should be to get 1 million people involved in some type of hunting or fishing derby/contest. That will familiarize more people with hunting and fishing if these derbies are promoted in the right way in support of the need and logical reasons for hunting and fishing. This in turn will also increase acceptance of hunting and fishing with non-participants.

Who cares what the antis think, they hate us no matter what we do. 

[bearpaw]

To sell something to people you have to promote it. 

[KFhunter]

Contests bring awareness and participation.

Coyote derby's in WA bring awareness to the coyote problems.  How many friendships were forged on a HW coyote derby?  How many new coyote hunters does HW coyote derby's create?  I've seen quite a few first time coyote hunters posting on the coyote threads.  A derby is a fantastic way for them to get out and learn from the pro's.

A wolf derby will work in Idaho if your goal is to bring wolf awareness to those that wish to control wolves.  It networks successful hunters to new wolf hunters, idea's are shared and it gets people in the right frame of mind to get outdoors and hunt wolves.  Idaho's wolf derby probably even brought in a few out of state hunters but I can't verify that.

The wolf anti's are going to be against wolf hunting derby or no derby,  that the derby won out in the courtroom also says a lot for Idaho.  Those who are non-hunters can be reached by positive outreach.  Yes some will fall on the wrong side of the fence but if it's due to a derby they were lost to hunters anyways.

It'll be a long time before we see a wolf derby in WA,  but the way was paved for us to do so by Idaho.  Idaho's fight is Washington's fight as well,  the're like our big brother in this smoothing the way for us.  If there was a derby for wolves I'd join it in NE/WA,  and I'd take people out and educate them on how best to hunt wolves. 

I'd gain new friends who were also "knuckle dragging rednecks".

[idahohuntr]

It's a great family activity that benefits and strengthens the family. We humans are all animals, just like any other animal we must find other food to eat and hunting is at the heart of that basic need.

This is the kind of message that resonates very well with the non-hunting public. 

The Washington model of pampering hunting to make it look better to the non-hunting public is backfiring and I think the present state of affairs in this state verses the state of affairs in Idaho or Montana where hunting and the need for hunting is more commonly talked about is proof of that. 

What exactly do you mean by this?  How does WA "pamper hunting" that ID and MT does not?

[snowpack]

JLS, since wolves reproduce at a rate of up to 40% annually, an 11% harvest (like the one you cited), means the wolves are not being managed to maintain population numbers, but their increase is only being slowed. 

One of the articles implies a reproduction rate of 100%!  So double every year.  It said that the wolf professor Mech says that a harvest rate of up to 50% can still maintain a stable wolf population. 

[Gringo31]

This debate kinda pisses me off....

I think you guys need to get off the fence and decide which side you are on.  Either you are going to stand for true conservation, put solid efforts to manage our natural resources and follow some fairly black and white differences

OR

You can continue to ride the fence and be hated by both sides.


As a general rule, predator management is lacking.  This goes from coyotes, wolves, bears, lions all the way to pelicans, cormorants and sea lions.

Adding an apex predator into a natural resource that we pay to protect will only reduce our harvest.  I'd rather feed the hunting families that pay the way than to sit back and feel good that the wild is more better 

We have gone too far from simple truths and I think it is a foolish mistake to try and appease the animal rights whacko groups.  Let local areas govern their local areas.  Let the greenie weirdo from Portland or Colorado have a voice in their own back yards.   

[idahohuntr]

This debate kinda pisses me off....

I think you guys need to get off the fence and decide which side you are on.  Either you are going to stand for true conservation, put solid efforts to manage our natural resources and follow some fairly black and white differences

OR

You can continue to ride the fence and be hated by both sides.


As a general rule, predator management is lacking.  This goes from coyotes, wolves, bears, lions all the way to pelicans, cormorants and sea lions.

Adding an apex predator into a natural resource that we pay to protect will only reduce our harvest.  I'd rather feed the hunting families that pay the way than to sit back and feel good that the wild is more better 

We have gone too far from simple truths and I think it is a foolish mistake to try and appease the animal rights whacko groups.  Let local areas govern their local areas.  Let the greenie weirdo from Portland or Colorado have a voice in their own back yards.   

I am certainly not sitting on any fence in this debate.  I am black and white saying that publicity stunts like a wolf derby hinder long-term predator management.  Period.  I have no interest in appeasing anti-hunters.  They are extremists who won't be convinced of anything so it is not worth worrying about them.  What I am concerned with is how the majority of the voting, non-hunting public perceives hunting.  That voting, non-hunting majority is what stripped hound hunting in washington.  They will take away other hunting methods, tools, etc. if they perceive hunting as nothing more than a contest to win a prize or brag about a big animal. 

[Northway]

The WDFW tries to hide coyote derbies and other contests in this state. I think they should be supporting these coyote derbies, fishing contests, and big buck derbies.

The goal should be to get 1 million people involved in some type of hunting or fishing derby/contest. That will familiarize more people with hunting and fishing if these derbies are promoted in the right way in support of the need and logical reasons for hunting and fishing. This in turn will also increase acceptance of hunting and fishing with non-participants.

Who cares what the antis think, they hate us no matter what we do. 

I'm not sure that a coyote derby is the gateway activity for new hunters. If you had a room full of non-hunters, and you were tasked with trying to sell the sport to them, would coyote derbies be one of the central themes of your presentation?

The largest available pool of non-hunters is in urban/suburban areas. I believe that selling hunting as a way to get away from the city life, enjoy the public lands that are so important to those of us in the west, or to participate in a noble sport with a strong history in North America could be more fruitful? There are a lot of people stuck in urban areas for periods of time for whatever reason, and a lot of us need an outlet – hunting should be one of those outlets. 

What many might not understand is that it feels like there are high barriers to entry for someone new to the sport and without strong connections to it. You need to acquire appropriate gear, develop some level of marksmanship, have someone or a network of people to help you learn strategy, to learn how to handle your game after you are successful, etc. Of course there are probably plenty of hunters out there who would be willing to help further the sport, but how do you connect with the folks who are only at the point of casually day-dreaming about hunting? I can say as someone with outdoor experience that has always wanted to get more into hunting, that one of the things that I have lacked is someone to truly mentor me through the process. 

I think it's a great idea to get more hunters out there, especially hunters who enjoy using public lands. There are deep divides between different public lands advocacy groups, but ultimately getting more folks caring about and using public lands is a good thing for the conservation movement as a whole, imo. 

[Special T]

I think coyote hunting is the lowest threshold huntign sport... You can use what ever gun you want/have. Shotgun-30-06 nearly any camo, and a hand call will work most places. Here on the west side a hike throught he woods with a shotgun and hand call are about all you need.   More hinking and calling than on the E side where you call father distances.

[bearpaw]

The Washington model of pampering hunting to make it look better to the non-hunting public is backfiring and I think the present state of affairs in this state verses the state of affairs in Idaho or Montana where hunting and the need for hunting is more commonly talked about is proof of that. 

What exactly do you mean by this?  How does WA "pamper hunting" that ID and MT does not?

I started a big long explanation but decided if you really can't see this, I am probably wasting my time.