Single v.s. Dual Cam Bows

[RadSav]

My understanding is that originally single cam bows where developed as an attempt to simplify cables/string articulation, address timing challenges, and make bows faster.  Now, technology has reversed this speed quest, and dual cam bows are faster.
So, is this a fair assessment of the difference between the two systems?  What are the benefits other than speed between the two?

With todays improved string fibers and shorter bows Jellymon is right on about it being who you ask as to what is better.  Jelly's post reminded me of a seminar Larry D. Jones did at my shop in the 80's.  When it came time for Q&A a customer asked, "Why do you make three different diaphrams'?"  Larry's answer was, "I've found there are a lot of elk calling experts.  Some tell me I need to sound like a smaller weaker bull to have success.  For those experts I make the blue single reed.  Other experts tell me the only way to call in an elk is to sound like a bigger bull, but not so big that you sound intimidating.  For those experts I make the red 1.5 reed.  And then their are experts who tell me the only way to be successful calling elk is to challenge the bulls manhood by sounding as big and bad as he is.  For those experts I make the green double reed.  They all told me they were experts so I had to make three reeds.  You just need to decide which expert you are!"


Since I started bowhunting back in the early eighties I hunted with bows that range in actual speed from about 180 fps to 320 fps.  Not one of the dead animals ever complained about how fast the arrow was going when it delivered the fatal payload.  Somewhere around '86 I shot a bedded blacktail buck after stalking close by keeping a log between he and I.  When I took the shot I could not see his vitals because the log was in the way.  I short drew the bow making sure the arrow could lob over the log and hit the sweet spot.  With an X through his heart he didn't make it very far after impact.  In 2004 I killed an elk in the last hour of the last day of the season.  The shot was long and the brush was thick.  My only chance for success was to place an arrow through a beach ball sized hole 30 yards in front of me.  I got down on my knees and using my 30 yard pin I aimed about 2" from the top of the hole.  I was not aiming for the elk, but for this spot in the hole.  With a triangle hole through her heart she didn't make it very far after impact.  Had I shot the 2004 bow in '86 and the '86 bow in 2004 I would not have been able to kill either of those animals.  Speed was a factor, but in these cases I was fortunate enough to have a slow bow when I needed it and I fast bow when I needed it.  The longer you bowhunt the more you realize speed sucks and speed rules.  It all depends on the situation.

With todays max load limbs, low creep string fibers and short A2A bows all cam types produce outstanding speeds.  Mathews has produced single cam bows in moderate brace height models that rival the speed levels achieved by even the short brace height Hoyt Cam1/2 models.  PSE has reached the 370 fps mark with a hybrid cam rivaling any binary offering by Bowtech or Mathews.  At 37.5" A2A and 7.5" brace height Bowtech's Overdrive Binary Specialist produces speeds the short low brace height Hoyt Cam1/2 hunting models struggle to reach.  So does any one cam style have an advantage over the other?  Sometimes "Yes" sometimes "No".

With todays shorter bows and lighter more durable limb materials each cam style has the ability to produce the same force draw curve.  However, if all things were equal, including cam weight and force draw curve, except for the style of the cam mechanical efficiencies would lead us to believe that the hybrid would produce slightly faster speeds than the single cam and the binary would produce slightly more speed than the hybrid cam.  But things are rarely if ever equal.  So beyond brand loyalty why would someone chose one over the other?

Without punching the numbers and getting too exact in figures I'd bet 8 out of every 10 Mathews single cam shooters I speak with have chosen their bows because of how the bow felt when they test shot it at the shop.  "It was so smooth!!!" is the response I hear over and over from these shooters.  Mathews seems to have figured this out and while they could make faster bows with a single cam they do not.  They produce a smooth drawing, reasonably fast bow for that customer base.  If you want top speed from Mathews you now have to think about choosing AVS/binary.  While to me it's not objectionable there might be a marketing reason behind calling it a Monster.  Sort of a mind game in expressing it's not going to be that silky smooth Mathews your use to.

It is my belief that Bear archery has exceeded Mathews in the single cam development.  The Venue and Empire produce better speeds than the Mathews bows and they are as sweet to shoot as anything out there.  Bear's S13 cam is extremely light, extremely well balanced, it is mounted to a great Max Preload quad limb, draws like butter and stays extremely level throughout the shot.  While I like mechanical efficiencies I find I have a hard time not shooting the single cam when choosing a Bear bow.  They've really gotten it right over the past few years. 

I also like a high performance single cam bow when I travel to far away places.  The security and confidence in having a bow that is not going to lose tune no matter the weather is important to me when a backup or pro shop is hours or days away.  The caribou in my avatar was taken with a Bear single cam bow shooting about 290 fps.  It was one of the best shots I've ever made after eight days of nonstop rain and only a North Face tent for escape from the elements.  I think it was the perfect choice for that hunt.

So experts agree. The single cam bow is a winner!

[MLBowhunting]

You are the MAN.    

[hollymaster]

The suspense is killing me.   

[RadSav]

After a ten year relationship with a two cam bow, "Sweetheart" told me she was tired and ready for retirement.  It was 2004, I was an eat, sleep, bleed Hoyt shooter so the logical answer for me was a Cam1/2 bow.  For the next six years I would be a hybrid shooter when hunting season would come around.  But it wasn't much of a love relationship.  While I knew the hybrid was a better design the bows of the day were rather poor and junky for my taste.  The Hoyts had cam lean issues that haunted my dreams and for my hand shape the one piece grip left me having to pay so much attention to the sights bubble I had difficulty concentrating on the target. PSE was heavy, noisy and always in need of tuning and maybe it's just me, but fit and finish does matter and PSE had neither.  I started buying more and more bows each year testing, shooting and being disappointed.  It wasn't the hybrid cam that was the problem for me, even though the Hoyt cam lean was a hard pill to swallow.  It was more the whole package than the cam.  I liked the Cam1/2 in the way it shot, but the super short valley and spongy wall drove me nuts.  The PSE didn't have the cam lean issues and the valley and wall was nice, but they drew and shot like a mule kick.  I was getting more frustrated and was starting to go poor buying so many different bows per year in search of one worthy to be my next long term hunting partner.

Meanwhile, as I was struggling, the wife had created a lasting relationship with the Hoyt Kobalt.  Sure it had cam lean from Hell being 28" A2A, but she was shooting it very well and was making the shots when it counted.  Of course this Hoyt had the nicer two piece saddle grip and the wife's attitude over cam lean was more a "Who cares.  It shoots great!"  She was on fire killing just about everything she aimed at...even at some distances I didn't think she should shoot.  So she couldn't have been happier.  I'm still trying to get that bow out of her hands.  At times I think she likes that bow more than she likes me.

By 2009 my frustration with Hoyt (the company) had hit an all time high.  They were arrogant, rude and began treating their long time loyal followers with true disrespect.  As a result my hunting time began being shared with other brands and other cam styles.  Bear had produced the first single cam I could stand to shoot and Bowtech was starting to get things somewhat figured out.  Then Steve Sims set me up with the odd new DZ-32.  While this bow was much more noisy than I expected from Sims the hybrid cam had only a hint of lean, the valley was perfect and the back wall was solid.  It felt great in the hand during draw and through the shot.  Every time I checked the sight bubble at the range it was already dead center perfect!!!  And most important was that every single thing I ever pointed it at seemed to die instantly.  Finally, a hybrid cam bow where the reality of the hybrid and the facts as set down on paper matched.  This is what I was expecting of the hybrid and Cam1/2 since 2004!

While Hoyt is still trying to convince the bowhunting public that 330 fps from a 6.75" brace height bow and 340 fps from a 6" brace bow is in their words "Blistering Speed", the fact is the new Hoyt Cam1/2 models are quite nice.  And even though the Faktor is quite anemic in regards to speed for the money spent it matches well with the hybrid cam and feels nice from draw all the way through the shot.  Once again Bear Archery is the sleeper deal in the new hybrid bows.  It draws as nice as any Hoyt, produces speeds of 340 @ 7" brace and 350 @ 6" brace.  The Agenda 6/7 and Motive 6/7 are super quiet, a dream to tune and matched up with the wonderful Max PreLoad Quad limb it's a super value.  And most importantly...in all the Bear hybrids I've played with I have yet to see one with even a slight cam lean issue!  PSE had hit a home run with their value priced Vendetta so I was shocked and very disappointed to see it discontinued. I recommended it to a lot of folks and it always made my annual top choice list.  But, a few of the value priced PSE bows still mimic the Vendetta's smooth draw, good speed and excellent shot feel.  Even if they still lack that fit and finished look.

If todays hybrid cam bows had been available in 2004 I'd expect it would have saved me close to $30,000 in bows over the past 10 years.  Todays models are many and they are what we thought they would be back when Hoyt started the craze.  In most cases they are smooth on the draw, dependable and softer on the shot than all but the best single cams of Bear and Mathews. And for those speed freaks there seems to be few limits if you don't mind short brace heights and harsh shot characteristics.  They really have become the standard by which all other cams are judged and rightly so.

It may have taken a while to marry the technology with the near perfect bow.  But, in the end the hybrid cam has become a leader in nearly every important category from the hunting stand to the target line. 

So experts agree. The hybrid cam is a winner!

[RadSav]

Most of the long winded information you read here is information I compiled and reviewed as we were in the process of trying to purchase Martin Archery.  It was my hope that if the financial channels opened up for us we would be able to hit the ground running while bringing a marriage of art and science to the legendary bow line.  It was clear from the start that to accomplish such a goal we would need to continue the outrageously expensive royalties with the binary cam.  But, this time...do it right!  How can a company claim to be on the leading edge of technology without the most mechanically efficient cam system available to us today?  Especially when companies like Darton, Winchester, Elite, Mathews and Bowtech have shown us how much flexibility in design and function we could have in binary.

Crossover cables and other fast fix gimmicks to eliminate cam lean issues have pretty much been replaced with two track systems, improved yoke systems, AVS systems and Bowtechs unbelievable Overdrive system.  Systems that work and work reliably.  Binary can be as simple as a two cam bow (which in reality - it is) and as sophisticated as the AVS and Overdrive.  They are quiet, efficient, smooth when you want them to be and aggressive if you wish them to be.  They can be light and responsive as seen on the Elite series of bows and on the RPM 360 or they can be moderate weighted to improve durability while still maintaining speeds that rival most single and hybrid systems.  All in a package when initially tuned/timed properly should remain trouble free until that next string change.  Shoot it arrow high or arrow low.  Grip heavy heal or California high wrist.  The system is so forgiving and the cable loads are so identical it just doesn't matter.  If manufactured properly nock travel will remain level regardless.  Making the binary a shop tech / bow tech's dream come true.

You still have to be careful in choosing a binary cam bow today.  Not every manufacturer has taken the time to eliminate the issues of the past.  You can still find binary bows with limb issues and cam lean issues in excess.  And unless you are buying a Mathews Mission with the AVS system, you are probably going to be paying a higher price do to the licensing agreements.  I'm expecting this to change in the next few years, but with all the binary licensing lawsuits being thrown around who the heck knows how expensive this is going to get.  So be careful.  Just because you are paying top dollar isn't going to guarantee you a perfectly performing binary.  Currently I think you can be pretty secure in choosing any of the Monster's and any of the Mission bows using the AVS system.  Likewise, you can be confident in the Bowtech Overdrive Binary (though I will not endorse the Carbon Overdrive until more time and first hand testing has been completed on these limbs and riser).  Elite is showing great quality and pride in workmanship as well.  On shorter A2A Elites I might need to inspect carefully before purchase even though I have not seen any surprises with the Elite yet.

More and more target shooters are beginning to take the leap and go binary.  Following a great number of bowhunters who already have.  And I believe if Bowtech and Elite start laying down the same contingency money that Hoyt does you will see a massive change in logos at the tournament line very soon!

The experts are starting to agree...binary is a winner!!!

[RadSav]

When I lay awake in bed with my mind racing, thoughts of the perfect bow are the topics that won't go away.  These restless nights have gotten better over the past few years.  Beyond cosmetics and grip shape I've found peace that the single cam and hybrid cams have finally married with quality limbs and one can find quality and dependability rather easy in the industry.  In the Bowtech Experience I find the perfect combination of speed, geometry, stealth and shootability I've always wanted.  It is a bow so closely resembling what I have drawn up in my head so many times during those sleepless nights I often think maybe a Bowtech spy is in my head with me.

With all the advancements in each cam design over the past few years.  With all the advancements in limbs and limb pockets over the past few years.  With all the advancements in bowstring fibers the past few years.  And with all the advancements in vibration control over the past few years.  I've come to a conclusion about the various cam technologies.  That being;

    "The Phoenix is Never Dead!"     

Just when you think a cam technology is dead and buried beneath an endless depth of ashes and failure one simple visionary with an idea can trigger a rebirth.  The phoenix rises stronger and more functional than it was before. Who knows what's next?  With all the new materials available to us today I would not be surprised if the two cam bow rises again.  I know a lot of top level target shooters that would like to see that happen.

So any expert to claim a single design as the only answer and dominate winner...He is a dang fool!

[Jellymon]

 

[Pacosub]

Above and beyond Radsav!  Thanks for sharing all of your amazing experience and research in such a thoughtful and well written manner!    awesome Resource!  Thanks again - I have a lot to download and think about!

[JLS]

Another masterpiece pal! Thanks for sharing your knowledge, now I know that I picked THE winner

[hoyt2002]

Wow That was a great read. Thanks for the good info Radsav.

[whackmaster]

awesome you the man RADASV