FOREST PRACTICE BOARD MEETING

[jackelope]

Wonder why this has not effected the deer in the area ?  Maybe because there are no deer 

Who says it hasn't? Hair loss syndrome, deformed antler growth, population decreases, etc. See any grouse out there lately? Rabbits? Even coyotes? This is possibly doing a lot more damage than we're aware.

There's no shortage of grouse....I can tell you that. At least not where we've hunted down there.
Hair loss is caused by something completely different. Wasn't it some sort of lice or mites or something?

Where you saw the grouse were you hunting on the tree farms that have been sprayed?

I was on a tree farm. I couldn't tell you for sure if they were sprayed. No idea.

[pianoman9701]

Wonder why this has not effected the deer in the area ?  Maybe because there are no deer 

Who says it hasn't? Hair loss syndrome, deformed antler growth, population decreases, etc. See any grouse out there lately? Rabbits? Even coyotes? This is possibly doing a lot more damage than we're aware.

There's no shortage of grouse....I can tell you that. At least not where we've hunted down there.
Hair loss is caused by something completely different. Wasn't it some sort of lice or mites or something?

Really, nothing to see here? What makes them susceptible to the mites? How do we know what's causing these things to happen? What I do know is that these are serious chemicals. There are several counties in Indiana that have banned them because of their levels in drinking water and the problems mothers and children are having. At the very least, killing all of the forage for ungulates isn't helping their nutrition. We know they need the growth in open spaces to feed - grasses and broadleaf. Spraying that crap all over the forests is certainly not making them healthier. I guarantee that.

[bearpaw]

Wonder why this has not effected the deer in the area ?  Maybe because there are no deer 

Who says it hasn't? Hair loss syndrome, deformed antler growth, population decreases, etc. See any grouse out there lately? Rabbits? Even coyotes? This is possibly doing a lot more damage than we're aware.

There's no shortage of grouse....I can tell you that. At least not where we've hunted down there.
Hair loss is caused by something completely different. Wasn't it some sort of lice or mites or something?

Where you saw the grouse were you hunting on the tree farms that have been sprayed?

I was on a tree farm. I couldn't tell you for sure if they were sprayed. No idea.

I was just curious. Was it newly planted in any surrounding areas? What timber company?

[jackelope]

Wonder why this has not effected the deer in the area ?  Maybe because there are no deer 

Who says it hasn't? Hair loss syndrome, deformed antler growth, population decreases, etc. See any grouse out there lately? Rabbits? Even coyotes? This is possibly doing a lot more damage than we're aware.

There's no shortage of grouse....I can tell you that. At least not where we've hunted down there.
Hair loss is caused by something completely different. Wasn't it some sort of lice or mites or something?

Really, nothing to see here? What makes them susceptible to the mites? How do we know what's causing these things to happen? What I do know is that these are serious chemicals. There are several counties in Indiana that have banned them because of their levels in drinking water and the problems mothers and children are having. At the very least, killing all of the forage for ungulates isn't helping their nutrition. We know they need the growth in open spaces to feed - grasses and broadleaf. Spraying that crap all over the forests is certainly not making them healthier. I guarantee that.

I'm not here to get in a debate with you, Pman. I did a quick search via Bing and found info on hair loss syndrome and the lice issue in Washington, Oregon and California. That is all. It's been an  issue in Washington since the late 90's.  You can think what you want, I'm going to stick with the lice and it's been happening all over the western part of the country for several years.

[pianoman9701]

No debate necessary, Jack. I'm just sayin' this isn't good for our animals. Anyone who says it doesn't harm them at all, like Dr. Fairbrother contends, I'll believe as soon as they drink a glass of the spray. This is what basically happens when ungulates forage on clearcuts right after spraying.

[jackelope]

No debate necessary, Jack. I'm just sayin' this isn't good for our animals. Anyone who says it doesn't harm them at all, like Dr. Fairbrother contends, I'll believe as soon as they drink a glass of the spray. This is what basically happens when ungulates forage on clearcuts right after spraying.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you.

[t6]

Quote from Idahohunter; 


I hope by your citing so much of Mansfields work here you are starting to realize that she is not the enemy, but a key person in solving this complex problem. 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't think anyone here wanted WDFW to be the enemy however the position they have taken and their refusal to test or consider the herbicides as a factor leave us little choice.

I don't think we would gotten them escalate their efforts at all if someone wasn't willing to hold their feet to the fire.  They have had 20 years to study this and as of yet, they still have not tested herbicides as a potential cause.  That seems irresponsible to me. 

I can tell you that in my many years of hunting, I've seen a serious decline in deer, elk, and grouse populations. 

I'm upset, I'm pissed off, I want answers! 

Most of all, someday I want to be able to walk with my Grandchildren in the woods and know that I've done everything I could to be a good steward so that someday, they might get the same chance to chase after grouse, deer, and elk that have bountiful numbers and are healthy. 

[t6]

I don't know if anyone thinking that herbicide use might be related to hoof rot thought that it could be the direct cause.

Really? There are probably hundreds of posts suggesting that.

Ok, maybe one guy might have thought herbicides might be a direct cause...........(the sandwich guy) but I got the impression that most thought that it was more likely an inderect link. 

No Curly.... I for one think its a direct cause and all of the other diseases that the elk have including TREPONEMA (Yes, I agree they have it) and possibly Leptospirosis (Gotta test to find it) are secondary.

It may not bee causing the diseases but I believe that its the triggering factor causing the forage plants to die as well as being an immunotoxin.  This leaves the animals susceptible to all of the other secondary diseases.

But I think many of us have said it before. 

[Curly]

Well I guess what I consider direct cause is different than yours.  But it doesn't really matter to me if it is direct or indirect.....If herbicides play a role in meaning wildlife are not healthy then they should not be used.