How Many want "master Hunters" Out of North Bend, Snoq

[emac]

I am a mh although i don't know much about the elk movements around nb i have been out there on numerous occasions clearing and repairing the elk fence on the north and south side of i-90 as have many other mh. The fence in alot of areas was non-existence. I can't remember the exact mileage we have done but i am pretty sure it is over 4.  if you think its a problem why don't you get involved in something like this. It is helping keep the elk on "your" public land. I am sure there are other groups doing the same thing.

I got drawn for a mh tag in skagit this year. I guess i am going have to take your advice and get the few mh i know and go up there and push them on to private ground so i increase my odds at getting a phone call to shoot one. Or i will drive around and ask the landowners for "petition" as you call it. Oh wait i can't because the hunt coordinator has to call you first.

As many others have said get involved with the local organizations and do something about it if this "supposed" stuff is happening.


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[BAR C3]

I have no horse in this race, but will put my two cents in.
I will say that categorizing all Master Hunters as one is BS. Same to me as the Indian bashing.
The whole program does need to go in the garbage. Once again, not to say all, but I know several who have been busted poaching. Also know of several that didn't do crap to get there certification. They passed the test, had a firearms instructor go out and shoot damn near point blank, then said they did some volunteer work on there farm.
Well I was a firearm instructor and own a farm and told several to kick rocks if you thought I would lower myself to that.

The answer, do like Montana. Everyone puts in for damage hunts and you get drawn for ranking. You get certain dates. If you don't take them, move down list.
Since our state has so many hunters, limit to older, younger, or folks who did not draw.

[Dan-o]

I've been in the MH program for 13 years.   My son for 10.

I think it's a very worthwhile program for WDFW.

Really, it's not about a few easy antlerless tags;  it's about people who love elk and elk country.

Are there some bad apples in the group?   Yes

There are some bad apples in any group that size.

But, as previously mentioned, there is a zero tolerance policy and anyone caught cheating is suspended form the program even before they are convicted.  How can WDFW do more than that?

I'm not sure I buy the OP's description of MH's who can't gut an elk.   I suppose it could be true....  IDK.

What I know is that the MH program does a lot of good for the state in total.

I also believe that it's inadvisable to turn some of these hunts over to "general" tags.    There are reasons they are MH hunts.  It takes more time and effort to figure out where you can/can't hunt.  Not everyone will put in the effort.

There are always haters.......   too bad.    It's a good program.

[bullfisher]

I'm not a fan of the MH program, nor some of the MH I've met. Have they done some good? Yes. Has the program proven worthwhile for the states energy and money theyve spent on it? Not in my opinion.
To disaggree with an experimental hunting program isn't self distructive at all, quit the opposite actually.
 I can't speak for the OP's claims against the MH's. But the program just hasn't proven useful to me

[stevemiller]

maybe a general damage draw would work,I dont really know............Wait,will all the people putting in for the damage hunt go out and volunteer work to fix fences pick up camps and all that stuff or is it all just gonna go down hill fast because no one wants to do it,No one wants to pay for it either.  A few bad apples should not be shown as reps for the majority come on that is rediculous.I volunteer every year and I am not a MH yet,(Missed my window of op. this year)But when the chance comes again I will Why because i can,want to,and to do what i can to rep. as best I can what it is all about.You that are whining are not rep. fellow hunters very well at all in fact once again putting everyone down because of a few is bad practice.Now on another note,Im curious how you know so many people that are bad or are around bad people so much.

[kirkl]

I know we go out and repair farmers fences
Caused by elk damage. Is Joe public gonna do that beacause they draw
A late damage tag?

[Dan-o]

I'll just add this:   I've met some terrific people in the program who have been very helpful and become good friends.   

I suppose I could find like minded people another way, but I have met some great folks through the MH program.

[stevemiller]

I wonder how many from joe public will teach hunters ed for free also,Facts Facts Facts What do any of you anti MH's suggest we do to continue putting the next gen. in the hunt?Or are you so worried that you cant find the elk as it is so maybe it would be best for everyone if all stopped hunting elk but you. 

[cuzsis]

I live in North Bend. Most of the elk here go where the food is. Which is in people's yards (like mine). I'm cool with the elk in my yard, I get lots of good pictures! And I suppose it stands to reason that if it's private land without public hunting, that just makes it all the more appealing for them. You don't need *anyone* to drive them to that sort of habitat, they'll go on their own, and gladly!

 Given how expensive it is to keep a yard, I can understand why some folks would not want the elk in their yard. And I understand having someone "official" to go to, instead of putting up an ad on craigslist and hoping you get a decent hunter. Again, like any group I'm sure there are some bad apples in the MH program, but if you're a private landowner going to take a chance, someone who's been vetted by the state is going to be a more attractive option with most folks. OP may not like that, but that's probably what's going on. My :.02: anyway.

 I think if OP has seen actual illegal activity he should report it to the authorities, complaining on a public forum doesn't make a lot of sense for that.

 As far as the MH program in general. That's something he should take up with WDFW if he has an issue with it. They're the ones who run the program and they do take input.

[Little Dave]

The underlying issue with this is a complaint about an unsportsmanlike situation.  The point is debatable.  Some will say that the coordinator is placing out-of-town folks in a favorite hunt spot, perhaps running damage control operations during the general season and that's too bad, but is it?

There are a number of reasons why people hunt close to home.  One reason is money, it can be expensive to hunt far from home.  They care for a person or cannot afford time away from the day job.  Then there's the fact that living locally, these are the people that keep an eye on the property when you are out of town.  They know your kid's names.  You see them in the store, at church, and so forth.  You help them when a tree is down.  When they need help finding lost stock you are there in minutes, or they need help running sandbags in a flood.  So should the state move in because these guys don't have the right resources to hunt farther away from home?  Should it be just a rich man's sport?  Should we neglect their efforts because they have not or cannot apply for the Master Hunter permit?

Some of the property owners are completely unfamiliar and uninterested in matters of hunting sportsmanship.  They just want damage relief.  They will generally agree to the nice sounding concept of the master hunter program, not knowing what it means to their friend in town that has hunted there in the past.  It can be an easy sell, but would take the heart of a used car salesman for the state's representative to neglect another hunter's hard earned access.

What would be the sportsmanlike way of handling this matter?  Should the master hunter continue to hunt these properties during the general season?  Should the state be in the business of maximizing hunting opportunity for all hunters?

Ideally the master hunt permit season should not overlap the general seasons, the general seasons extended in the damage area.  As it is, if I were assigned the role of coordinator for this hunt, I would not assign permit holders during the general seasons and the one full week before the opening day of the general seasons, a sportsmanlike ethic.  It is a reasonable accommodation.  Other ideas?

[cuzsis]

From what I've heard the MH hunts don't overlap the general season. But I'm not a MH so I can't say for certain.

 I would assume that they cannot hunt general season unless they have permission from the land owner for that. MH and general season seem to be pretty well delineated. I know I'd be right ticked if I came home and found a hunter on my land without explicit permission for that day/time and I would put in a call to the Game Warden, MH or not!

As for the program itself, I've looked into it. The cost is only $50 and your time. You have to study to pass a written test, show you can shoot accurately and donate some volunteer hours. And it's good for...what? 5yrs if you volunteer regularly? $10/yr seems plenty reasonable, even cheap.

 I personally don't have an issue with the written test as it's described. It sounds reasonable.

 Shooting accurately, no one can really argue against that.

 Volunteer time, this is the one that I think can trip people up the most. I know the elk group around here does MH hours for various things. And the WDFW website seems to have a few options too. So at least for around here, it seems to be less of a concern.

For the local hunter, if you have friends who are land owners, you'd have to ask yourself why would they call WDFW and not you if they wanted some help hunting on their land? It wouldn't take anything to mention it. I know I've mentioned it to friends in the past who've complained about deer on their land. They're not at the point of actually wanting a hunter there, but they know I'm available if they do. I can't see that being too big of an issue if you put in a tiny bit of effort to advertise yourself.

New land owners, or land owners who *don't* know the hunter, then yeah I can see that being an issue. But then again you're dealing with "unknown hunter" vs "state vetted hunter" and most people will risk the later. Just human nature. 

[BAR C3]

I keep hearing "state vetted hunter". Maybe you should read my earlier post. Or read the regulations for the tests. These are not "state vetted" other then a criminal background.
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.

[CP]

I keep hearing "state vetted hunter". Maybe you should read my earlier post. Or read the regulations for the tests. These are not "state vetted" other then a criminal background.
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.

It is "advanced hunter ed".  They should call it that instead of master hunter.  Try taking the test if you don't think education is involved.

[h20hunter]

Here we are having a decent discussion with legit ideas and options being discussed in an adult way.

Where is the OP?

[Bob33]

I keep hearing "state vetted hunter". Maybe you should read my earlier post. Or read the regulations for the tests. These are not "state vetted" other then a criminal background.
Anyone can witness your shooting other than a relative. The volunteer work, another joke, know a lot of farms that will sign that off as well.
To be "state vetted", it should be an advanced Hunter Ed. All should be managed by game department. Including qualifying with weapon every year with qualified instructor.
Or my personal choice of bagging it and allowing damage hunts to be drawn for older, young, and people who did not draw a tag.

It is "advanced hunter ed".  They should call it that instead of master hunter.  Try taking the test if you don't think education is involved.

In fact the program used to the called AHE - Advanced Hunter Education.

Most applicants study a minimum of 30 to 40 hours prior to the written the exam. Applicants can test twice. The pass rate on first attempts is less than 50 percent. It's not an easy exam.