WDFW to Hold wolf Meeting Colville

[CAMPMEAT]

Mark my word: There will be a Cliven Bundy standoff with the ranchers about these wolves, when just one wolf is shot and killed, without the liberal thinking WDFW permission.

It's coming to a theater near us very soon.

[AspenBud]

The problem with hoping they hit the west side is people here already have a lot of contact with wildlife that takes out pets and even attacks people. Through sheer numbers of people you have a much higher chance of that. People are kind of numb and accepting that wild animals can hurt pets and people here.

That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.

You said this about predators before. They've not seen predators like wolves before. Nothing like them. Once we get a few packs over here and they get into the rural parts of King and Pierce Co.s, the support for wolves will dissipate quickly.

And that support will disappear because of property losses, not threats to human safety, and it's a safe bet whether it happens in Pierce, King, Whatcom, Clark, Grays Harbor, Cowlitz, Thurston, etc counties will not matter. Like I've also said, dead is dead, be it by cougar, bear, coyote, or wolf. And people west of the mountains have had to deal with all but the wolf over the years. You make it sound like the west side is some utopia devoid of dangerous wild animals where no one ever loses a dog or gets attacked themselves. You're either an out of state transplant or don't get out much because that perception is just not true.

[AspenBud]

Mark my word: There will be a Cliven Bundy standoff with the ranchers about these wolves, when just one wolf is shot and killed, without the liberal thinking WDFW permission.

It's coming to a theater near us very soon.

Probably because that's what people want. The issue has far more to do with distrust and unhappiness of government than anything to do with wolves. Something that is sad because it will take attention away from the issue of wolves.

When ol Clive decided to "take a stand" no one really paid much attention to the ESA issue that he wanted to talk about. They focused on his anti government stance and the money issues. Solar farms got more attention than the tortoise. The same will happen with the wolf issue if a similar standoff occurs.

[pianoman9701]

The problem with hoping they hit the west side is people here already have a lot of contact with wildlife that takes out pets and even attacks people. Through sheer numbers of people you have a much higher chance of that. People are kind of numb and accepting that wild animals can hurt pets and people here.

That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.

You said this about predators before. They've not seen predators like wolves before. Nothing like them. Once we get a few packs over here and they get into the rural parts of King and Pierce Co.s, the support for wolves will dissipate quickly.

And that support will disappear because of property losses, not threats to human safety, and it's a safe bet whether it happens in Pierce, King, Whatcom, Clark, Grays Harbor, Cowlitz, Thurston, etc counties will not matter. Like I've also said, dead is dead, be it by cougar, bear, coyote, or wolf. And people west of the mountains have had to deal with all but the wolf over the years. You make it sound like the west side is some utopia devoid of dangerous wild animals where no one ever loses a dog or gets attacked themselves. You're either an out of state transplant or don't get out much because that perception is just not true.

Nope, I just know that wolves are a different predator than any the west has been exposed to. As I've pointed out to you before, unlike bears and cougars, wolves hunt in packs and have the ability think out their attack. They're better at it than coyotes, too. As far as being an out-of-state transplant is concerned, I've been here for 30 years and I damned sure know the woods and wildlife as good as you. The people who oppose management are selfish and live in a fantasy world about wolves. They see them as cuddly creatures that play and they've seen the tame wolves that the greenies bring to schools to show them how nice they are. As soon as they're exposed to the harsh realities of wolves loose in their backyards, they'll see them in a whole different light. I know you want to portray wolves as just another predator like bears and cougars. They're not just another predator like bears and cougars. Some of us know that and don't buy into your PR BS.

[baldopepper]

The problem with hoping they hit the west side is people here already have a lot of contact with wildlife that takes out pets and even attacks people. Through sheer numbers of people you have a much higher chance of that. People are kind of numb and accepting that wild animals can hurt pets and people here.

That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.

You said this about predators before. They've not seen predators like wolves before. Nothing like them. Once we get a few packs over here and they get into the rural parts of King and Pierce Co.s, the support for wolves will dissipate quickly.

And that support will disappear because of property losses, not threats to human safety, and it's a safe bet whether it happens in Pierce, King, Whatcom, Clark, Grays Harbor, Cowlitz, Thurston, etc counties will not matter. Like I've also said, dead is dead, be it by cougar, bear, coyote, or wolf. And people west of the mountains have had to deal with all but the wolf over the years. You make it sound like the west side is some utopia devoid of dangerous wild animals where no one ever loses a dog or gets attacked themselves. You're either an out of state transplant or don't get out much because that perception is just not true.

I've gotta kind of disagree with you on this Aspenbud-westside people do not deal with predators well at all.  It's a major news article if a bear is seen anywhere near a school and this recent coyote scare was crazy.  People near discovery park were up in arms when a couple of coyotes were actually seen in the park with neighborhood letters going out warning people to not only keep their small animals in doors, but to also not let their small children play outside unattended.  Heck, I have a neighbor who will not let her children play outside of their fenced back yard because of reports that coyotes have been seen in the greenbelt two blocks away. I have friends who won't hike certain trails because someone reported seeing a bear there while hiking.  I'm willing to bet that if wolves were spotted on the popular tiger mtn trails that they would either close them for a while, or hiking traffic would decline to near nothing.  I've lived over here on the westside since 1980 and daily deal with a wide spectrum of people, I can assure you that the majority would literally quake in their boots if they thought wolves were living anywhere near their home and not in a zoo.  I do agree that the anti government rhetoric and conspiracy theories do not help the cause to get reasonable wolf management done.  Hate to see all of us get painted with the same brush.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

This is true and the reason why I can't wait until there are wolves on our side of the state. We won't have meaningful management until it hits people where they live. I won't go as far as saying i think it'd great if a couple of future liberal tree huggers got chewed up, but I'd like to see a few Fidos disappear to wake em up.

Here in Hoquiam it's a couple cougars who have made quite a dent in the local pet population. Fish and Wildlife won't do anything about it. Probably won't unless some kid gets dragged off from one of the grade schools in the area they hang out.

It's way more worrisome to have big cats around than wolves. Cats have actually fairly regularly attacked and killed people. Wolves? In spite of all the speculation, not so much. You can count fatal wolf attacks on humans in North America on one hand and have a few fingers left over.

[AspenBud]

This is true and the reason why I can't wait until there are wolves on our side of the state. We won't have meaningful management until it hits people where they live. I won't go as far as saying i think it'd great if a couple of future liberal tree huggers got chewed up, but I'd like to see a few Fidos disappear to wake em up.

Here in Hoquiam it's a couple cougars who have made quite a dent in the local pet population. Fish and Wildlife won't do anything about it. Probably won't unless some kid gets dragged off from one of the grade schools in the area they hang out.

It's way more worrisome to have big cats around than wolves. Cats have actually fairly regularly attacked and killed people. Wolves? In spite of all the speculation, not so much. You can count fatal wolf attacks on humans in North America on one hand and have a few fingers left over.

Yes, but we all know that Hoquiam isn't a part of the "west side." Only King County and it's 2 million people living on greenbelts out of 7 million in the state represents that. Nothing rural at all here, just a bunch of scared city people.     

[AspenBud]

The problem with hoping they hit the west side is people here already have a lot of contact with wildlife that takes out pets and even attacks people. Through sheer numbers of people you have a much higher chance of that. People are kind of numb and accepting that wild animals can hurt pets and people here.

That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.

You said this about predators before. They've not seen predators like wolves before. Nothing like them. Once we get a few packs over here and they get into the rural parts of King and Pierce Co.s, the support for wolves will dissipate quickly.

And that support will disappear because of property losses, not threats to human safety, and it's a safe bet whether it happens in Pierce, King, Whatcom, Clark, Grays Harbor, Cowlitz, Thurston, etc counties will not matter. Like I've also said, dead is dead, be it by cougar, bear, coyote, or wolf. And people west of the mountains have had to deal with all but the wolf over the years. You make it sound like the west side is some utopia devoid of dangerous wild animals where no one ever loses a dog or gets attacked themselves. You're either an out of state transplant or don't get out much because that perception is just not true.

Nope, I just know that wolves are a different predator than any the west has been exposed to. As I've pointed out to you before, unlike bears and cougars, wolves hunt in packs and have the ability think out their attack. They're better at it than coyotes, too. As far as being an out-of-state transplant is concerned, I've been here for 30 years and I damned sure know the woods and wildlife as good as you. The people who oppose management are selfish and live in a fantasy world about wolves. They see them as cuddly creatures that play and they've seen the tame wolves that the greenies bring to schools to show them how nice they are. As soon as they're exposed to the harsh realities of wolves loose in their backyards, they'll see them in a whole different light. I know you want to portray wolves as just another predator like bears and cougars. They're not just another predator like bears and cougars. Some of us know that and don't buy into your PR BS.

You go worry about that then. Meanwhile a hunter near Longview, a west side town, got attacked by a bear this Fall. The guy was so "upset" by it that he told the state not to hunt down and kill the bear because he felt it was doing what bears do. I wonder how many people in Stevens County have been attacked by a wolf...hmm...oh that's right, zero. I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, but to say people aren't used to dangerous wildlife here west of the mountains, that's both wrong and insulting.

Of course wolves are different, so what? If a pack of wolves kills you or a cougar or a bear kills you you're still dead.

[timberfaller]

"I wonder how many people in Stevens County have been attacked by a wolf..."

None as of yet, but there has been attacks by cougars in peoples yards on their children.

When they complained(too many) to WDFW, they had their season cut as well as number of tags.

Go figure! 

[buckfvr]

Local radio is playing comments made by Commissioner McCart and Cattleman Ted Wishon. McCart lambasted WDFW for their response to the commissioners resolution on wolves. He pointed out that "purported" and "constitutional rights" do not belong in the same sentence. He also stated that Stevens County will move forward in any way possible to resolve these wolf issues.

It was also pointed out that the recent attack on cattle in Aladdin Valley had reports filed by the Stevens County Sherrif's Dept and by WDFW and that the reports were not alike at all. Something about WDFW tried to say the wolves were not endangering the cattle and people clearly saw the wolves chasing the cattle.

I expect the county to explore all options, this will get interesting.

So...... do the game wardens file a false report or are their reports edited for content at another level ?  Regardless,  how can any of them be trusted .   

[PA BEN]

Local radio is playing comments made by Commissioner McCart and Cattleman Ted Wishon. McCart lambasted WDFW for their response to the commissioners resolution on wolves. He pointed out that "purported" and "constitutional rights" do not belong in the same sentence. He also stated that Stevens County will move forward in any way possible to resolve these wolf issues.

It was also pointed out that the recent attack on cattle in Aladdin Valley had reports filed by the Stevens County Sherrif's Dept and by WDFW and that the reports were not alike at all. Something about WDFW tried to say the wolves were not endangering the cattle and people clearly saw the wolves chasing the cattle.

I expect the county to explore all options, this will get interesting.

So...... do the game wardens file a false report or are their reports edited for content at another level ?  Regardless,  how can any of them be trusted .   

Everything that was said about the report from WDFW on this made the point that it was false without saying it directly by our elected officials. Now for the people there, they were calling the game dept. liars. They were calling them out saying a lot of people saw those wolves chase the cattle and the dept. wrote a false report. As far as the westside dealing w/predators, all the comments there were not that the westside doesn't deal with predators it's the fact that wolves are an apex predator and we are dealing with them and if they want wolves so bad they should have them over there. The Lynnwood wolf meeting was brought up. Why are you having a meeting with westsiders that don't live w/wolves to help you make policy. No answer to that question. 

[CAMPMEAT]

The Lynnwood meeting will be full of Conservation Northwest, Evergreen State College hippies and the same type of peoples, screwing the eastside ranchers again........

[pianoman9701]

After speaking with someone very involved with the wolf program, he indicated the the WDFW is doing what they can to manage the wolves in the face of fierce opposition from the pro-wolf groups. He did say that if there were able they'd be managing the wolves more aggressively. They're being hampered in this by overwhelming public opinion in favor of the wolves and the possibility of pressure from the Governor's office is also a factor. It was also apparent from talking with him that when they were formulating the plan, they had no idea what they were getting into with regards to the scope and goals of the program, much as we've discussed and speculated on this forum. He urged me to keep from getting personal toward any one member of the WDFW as no one person is responsible for how they're being managed at this point. The information was helpful in getting an overall idea of where the program stands right now. I feel even stringer that the only hope we have to being able to manage the wolves within a reasonable period of time is if westsiders get a taste of the packs.

[baldopepper]

Local radio is playing comments made by Commissioner McCart and Cattleman Ted Wishon. McCart lambasted WDFW for their response to the commissioners resolution on wolves. He pointed out that "purported" and "constitutional rights" do not belong in the same sentence. He also stated that Stevens County will move forward in any way possible to resolve these wolf issues.

It was also pointed out that the recent attack on cattle in Aladdin Valley had reports filed by the Stevens County Sherrif's Dept and by WDFW and that the reports were not alike at all. Something about WDFW tried to say the wolves were not endangering the cattle and people clearly saw the wolves chasing the cattle.

I expect the county to explore all options, this will get interesting.

So...... do the game wardens file a false report or are their reports edited for content at another level ?  Regardless,  how can any of them be trusted .   

Everything that was said about the report from WDFW on this made the point that it was false without saying it directly by our elected officials. Now for the people there, they were calling the game dept. liars. They were calling them out saying a lot of people saw those wolves chase the cattle and the dept. wrote a false report. As far as the westside dealing w/predators, all the comments there were not that the westside doesn't deal with predators it's the fact that wolves are an apex predator and we are dealing with them and if they want wolves so bad they should have them over there. The Lynnwood wolf meeting was brought up. Why are you having a meeting with westsiders that don't live w/wolves to help you make policy. No answer to that question.

This kind of makes my point , PA Ben.   The problem is on the east side, but the battle has to be done on the west side.  These state agencies grovel at the feet of elected officials and everyone knows where the majority of those votes are in this state.  I honestly don't believe that wolf advocates will ever allow any viable numbers of wolves on this side of the state simply because it would bring the battle into the to the homes of that majority vote. I was only half kidding when I advocated pushing for more packs, but establishing them on the westside.  Seems logical to me, heck , does away with the problem of major livestock confrontations and there are certainly areas that fit the  environment that wolves need. Granted most of those areas are also popular outdoor recreation areas for the REI shopping crowd, but I'm sure they'd welcome the occasional wolf encounter while hiking places like Mt.  Si with their families. I strongly believe that the only way to ever achieve a reasonable management program is to have meetings like the one coming in Lynnwood to be filled with westside voters wanting to know why they're seeing wolves in their backyards.

[villageidiot]

So we eliminated bubonic plague,polio,measles,mumps,rheumatic fever, leprocy and a host of other diseases because they did more harm than good.  We still have a few very undesirable diseases we are trying to at least hold at bay.  Why in the world would we want to bring back one of these very destructive vermins just because a bunch of city folks think the world will get lopsided without having a good bunch of these cancerous vermins?  One might notice too that the majority of the groups and people that want them only want them to be in somebody else's back yard.
  Sure we have a few bear and cougar attacks but we don't need to add another animal that we were doing just fine without.  In fact before I-955 we were actually managing cougar and bear where we had very few problems with cougar and bear.  Since we lost baiting,trapping and hound hunting we lost our ability to manage these dangerous animals.  Of course it has no affect on the city folks either way because they live in the concrete jungle where there are no animals.
  It's just amazing how selfish and unsympathetic people are that have "no skin in the game".
  By the way, I do have livestock "skin in the game" and am a Wildlife Biologist.