More arrow questions

[Seahawk12]

Back ground:
I hunted bow for over a decade. Hunting partners dropped out and I got married and had kids. Lack of time due to raising a young family and lack of partners due to my old buddies giving up on the sport led to me hanging up the gear and stopping hunting for a few years. When I started to have the time to get out again I bought a rifle and joined the ranks of the Modern Firearm crowd mostly because I couldn't locate bow hunters to partner up with. I still shoot my old bow from time to time and my daughter has always been fascinated by it. She is now 9yo and I have picked up a Diamond infinite edge for her to give at Christmas. It's a cool bow. I decided that it was probably time for me to upgrade my bow as well and bought a Parker Phoenix EZ-Draw.
Here are my questions:
1: My daughter has a 21.5" draw length and a 20# draw weight. I would like to get arrow recommendations for her. Outdoor emporium has some small carbon arrows set up for junior archers that are good up to 35#s for $4.50 a piece. I also drove out to an archery shop today and the gentleman there suggested she have aluminum arrows. He said he could set her up at $6 per arrow. He suggested that at her size aluminum is lighter and so would be better for her.
Your thoughts? Experience and suggestions?
2: My bow is set at 29" draw length and 70# weight. The technology has changed a lot since I hunted. I'm still practice shooting with my old bow using Easton 2117 aluminum arrows. I want to go ahead and upgrade to carbon arrows. Outdoor emporium had boxes of carbon arrows but they are all factory fletched. At the Archery shop I went to he suggested that I go with Beman ICS Hunter 300s. The upside to those is they do the fletching. The downside was that they were priced at $90 + tax. I kind of expect to pay around that price point, or maybe slightly more to have them hand fletched, but those arrows can be had online for $55. So, what are your recommendations?
3: points/heads. What grain do I go with? Again, carbon is new to me. With my old set-up I used 125s for the punch. With carbon I have no idea.
Thanks for your help.

[LeviD1]

I would think at that weight you would want a arrow with a 400-450 spine and definitely use carbon arrows. They will shoot much better for you. 90 plus tax seems like a lot for arrows. Buy them online and buy a fletching tool to fletch them yourself. put a helical fletch on them, it will put more spin on your arrows and make them way more consistent. I just did this, this year and its amazing how much improvement it made on my groups. Fletching arrows yourself is not hard at all. Right now I use 100 grain broadheads and I shoot 70 lbs. I have had no problem with penetration but that also has to do with your broadhead choice to. I shot through both shoulders on my bear last year at 30 yards. I use shuttle T's, they fly really well for me. There are lots of great broadhead choices out there. I have a bitzenburger fletching tool, It is good quality and will probably last the rest of my life. Buy 12 arrows without having them fletched by someone else and your fletch tool, glue, fletch and you will be out the same amount of money buying 12 from that dealer.

What draw weight can your daughters bow go up to? if it goes up to 40 lbs or something I would just get her like a 250 spine carbon arrow. That way you wont be buying her arrows all the time as you increase the weight. Also If she is growing fast right now dont have the arrows cut to her current draw length set-up, Have them cut an inch long, It wont affect to much and you will save some money when she needs to increase her draw length. Being young and not hunting with the bow its all about her form anyways, she wont notice the arrow length difference. I hope any of this helps. There are definitely a lot more people who know a lot more than I do but I hope this helps. Have fun shooting your new bow! If your shooting with fingers  invest in a decent release also. I don't have kids but when I do I cant wait to get them a bow! She is going to have a blast!

[JBar]

For your bow go with 340's maybe 300's. There are a couple versions of the ICS hunter so make sure you compare apples to apples in price. The Bowhunter is the cheaper version with an .006 straightness and the Hunter more expensive with .003 I think. Most cases factory fletch is fine.

Daughter I would go with 500 spine and cheaper as a beginner is better for Dad. I would go carbon for the durability. Aluminum will bend and arrows will be lost so cheap and durable are a good start with kids.

[Band]

My most recent batch of arrows fly every bit as good as any other arrows I have owned and were on sale for $40/doz. (regular price $60/doz.).  I'm speaking of Carbon Raider arrows sold by Dick's Sporting Goods.  I have been very happy with their performance and I shoot them regularly out to 80 yards.  My only complaint is that the vanes are not as tough as they should be so I would only recommend them if you have a drop-away rest that will not contact the vanes.  Might be worth a look.

[LeviD1]

For your bow go with 340's maybe 300's. There are a couple versions of the ICS hunter so make sure you compare apples to apples in price. The Bowhunter is the cheaper version with an .006 straightness and the Hunter more expensive with .003 I think. Most cases factory fletch is fine.

Daughter I would go with 500 spine and cheaper as a beginner is better for Dad. I would go carbon for the durability. Aluminum will bend and arrows will be lost so cheap and durable are a good start with kids.

As i said in my last post I dont know a ton so this is just an informational question for you, I just didnt want you to take it the wrong way Incase its sounds like it 
 
But i thought you want more spine for the faster you are shooting? Wouldnt his bow be shooting around 315 fps? I have read and been told a 400ish spine is good for that so the arrow doesn't flex to much and it makes your arrows a little more consistent. And for 500 spine for his daughter is that just for durability reason? Wouldn't a lighter spine shoot better for her with her lighter draw weight?

[Band]

Higher spine numbers have more flex.

[RadSav]

For your bow go with 340's maybe 300's. There are a couple versions of the ICS hunter so make sure you compare apples to apples in price. The Bowhunter is the cheaper version with an .006 straightness and the Hunter more expensive with .003 I think. Most cases factory fletch is fine.

Daughter I would go with 500 spine and cheaper as a beginner is better for Dad. I would go carbon for the durability. Aluminum will bend and arrows will be lost so cheap and durable are a good start with kids.

But i thought you want more spine for the faster you are shooting? Wouldnt his bow be shooting around 315 fps? I have read and been told a 400ish spine is good for that so the arrow doesn't flex to much and it makes your arrows a little more consistent. And for 500 spine for his daughter is that just for durability reason? Wouldn't a lighter spine shoot better for her with her lighter draw weight?

Remember this bow is a Parker Pheonix EZ draw.  Not the fastest of bows on the market.  Not really fast for 2006 bows.  But it was very smooth and easy to shoot.  Actually a real nice bow, but a 420-450 grain arrow from that bow will likely shoot around 250-255 fps.  At 29" the 340 spine is still a bit on the stiff side, but that would be my spine of choice.  And the ICS Hunter shaft would be a perfect match IMO.

As far as youth arrows are concerned...safety and cheap first.  At nine years old and just starting there is no need for speed or high price tag.  Just get them shooting and having fun!  Get those arrows cheap enough that she can safely loose and break a bunch of them!!  There will come a time when she will want to start shooting from where Dad shoots.  When that time comes and she is no longer struggling to hit the target then worry about grade of arrows and getting that trajectory up.  Until that time you want big targets up close where success is assured and fun is at its peak.  Parents trying to make competitive target shooters out of nine year olds has ruined many a kids fun and resulted in the loss of many future bowhunters.  You will be amazed at how good she gets and how good she can shoot with durable economy arrows!

As for question #3 - Arrows are not bullets.  A 100 grain broadhead has no less punch than a 125 grain broadhead.  The only difference is FOC/balance and where the arrows energy is concentrated.  If shooting a Beman 340 arrow at 29" using three Blazer vanes either point weight will work just fine.  If you chose to go to a four inch fletch then I might error on the heavy side and go 125.

Good luck and hope your daughter enjoys her Christmas!

[LeviD1]

Higher spine numbers have more flex.

Oh I had it all backwards then. To the original poster maybe reverse what I said then. 

[RadSav]

Higher spine numbers have more flex.

Oh I had it all backwards then. To the original poster maybe reverse what I said then. 

If looking at Carbon Express part numbers the reverse is true.  Have no idea why they do it that way but PN#250 = 400 spine*, PN#350 = 345 spine* and PN#450 = 300 spine*
*(+/- 10 depending on model)

Nothing like making simple things confusing   Great arrows though!

[Seahawk12]

Thank you everyone for your input. It is all of great value to me.
Any suggestions for the right fletching tools if I decide to go that route? Who's a good manufacturer?

[SeaRun1]

Arizona EZ Fletch works really well for me.  Usually costs around $50.

SR1

[RadSav]

Arizona EZ Fletch works really well for me.  Usually costs around $50.

That or the Bohning Helix Tower are the best places to start.  Eventually you will probably want to get a Bitzenburger but they are slower, more expensive and a little more involved.  Make sure fletching is what you want to do first by going with the Arizona or Bohning first.  IMO that is the best way to work into it.

[Band]

Arizona EZ Fletch works really well for me.  Usually costs around $50.

That or the Bohning Helix Tower are the best places to start.  Eventually you will probably want to get a Bitzenburger but they are slower, more expensive and a little more involved.  Make sure fletching is what you want to do first by going with the Arizona or Bohning first.  IMO that is the best way to work into it.

Thanks, Rad, I was going to ask this as well.  What should we buy besides the jig, just vanes and glue?  Is there a decent glue for a decent price you can recommend?

[RadSav]

Only other thing I can think of is blue disposable shop towels and a real good quality lacquer thinner for cleaning the shafts.  My preference is those sold in automotive paint stores and McClendon Hardware's private brand.  If using Cyanoacrylate glues wait a good four or five hours after cleaning before fletching.

As far as glue is concerned I really only use one type of glue on my hunting shafts.  That is Saunders NPV.  Best stuff I have ever used!!! ( TIP: If ordering online, Buy it during the summer or spring to make sure it doesn't freeze during shipping)  If you want Cyanoacrylate glue I recommend Max Bond by AAE (Arizona Archery Ent.).  Others that work OK are Gorilla Glue (the Cyano' type) and Loctite's Ultra Gel.

[Todd_ID]

Only other thing I can think of is blue disposable shop towels and a real good quality lacquer thinner for cleaning the shafts.  My preference is those sold in automotive paint stores and McClendon Hardware's private brand.  If using Cyanoacrylate glues wait a good four or five hours after cleaning before fletching.

As far as glue is concerned I really only use one type of glue on my hunting shafts.  That is Saunders NPV.  Best stuff I have ever used!!! ( TIP: If ordering online, Buy it during the summer or spring to make sure it doesn't freeze during shipping)  If you want Cyanoacrylate glue I recommend Max Bond by AAE (Arizona Archery Ent.).  Others that work OK are Gorilla Glue (the Cyano' type) and Loctite's Ultra Gel.

I use the Gorilla Glue Gel.  I've tried the Gorilla Glue Impact Tough type, but I've never had any luck with it.  My vanes fell off the first time it got below freezing.    I'm sure that was my errors making that happen, but the regular Gorilla Glue Gel has been much more reliable for me.  I like the Bohning Helix jig as well, but my Bitz with the helical clamp is what I always turn to when I need a repair or an odd/different helical to match.

The biggest thing is don't put too much thought into it.  Just start doing it, and you'll quickly learn what you like and don't.  Getting a piece of plastic to stick to a piece of carbon in about the right place isn't rocket science.

[RadSav]

I use the Gorilla Glue Gel.  I've tried the Gorilla Glue Impact Tough type, but I've never had any luck with it.  My vanes fell off the first time it got below freezing.    I'm sure that was my errors making that happen, but the regular Gorilla Glue Gel has been much more reliable for me.

That is the reason I never trust cyanoacrylate glue on my hunting arrows.  Seems to be the greatest stuff on earth until you hunt in a real good freeze.  Then you never know what is going to happen!  With NPV I've used the same arrows at 110F down to -15F, rain, snow and extreme humidity.  Only problem I've ever experienced was a few tubes that sat under snow on the porch for a week without me knowing UPS had delivered them.

[Crunchy]

Bitzenberger fletch jig is solid.  Never break it.    I use fletch tite or goat tuff.