3-12 At the Farm - It Works

[Sabotloader]

Actually it works better than I thought it would! I think?

After gaining more personal interest in these new XP bullets especially this new .452x250 with the larger flutes and with some addition information gained on DOUG's board; I really wanted to run out and conduct another test.

It seemed to me that I had about 1 to 1 1/2 of dead time this afternoon that I might be able to run to the farm. I am retired and suppose to have all this spare time but it does not ever seem to work that way...

This morning I headed to my garage shop with the thought of mixing up a solution that I could pour into a gallon milk jug. I did not want to use straight water as I have done many times in the past - I really wanted something that was liquid but had a thicker consistency like you might find in the internal organs of an animal. So I mixed 4 quarts of very fine sawdust with 5 quarts of water. I kept mixing and diluting the mixture until I had the thickness of mix that I thought might be equal to the contents in the chest cavity organs. It ended up being think enough that I could stand a large wooden spoon up in the solution and it would just stand there on its own. In my mind I was thinking now if I put this solution in a gallon milk jug, the jug would act much like cell or organ wall. But of course the plastic milk jug was actually stronger than organ wall.

It was my thought I really wanted to see if a solid bullet passing and turning through the solution would create enough pressure to burst the milk jug. I have done this in the past with straight water using HPoint bullets - it would certainly rupture the jug but it never was or seamed real explosive.

I took my Mountianeer 50, which I have not shot for couple of years now, because Grouse convinced Knight to build the Ultra-Lite, and the Ultra-Lite has or often is the go-to rifle.

I set the jug of medium on a plastic bucket at 80 yards from the bench. I also setup 3 clay pigeons to shoot first to verify POI from the Mountaineer, which I am very glad I did because the impact point was very high. Got the scope adjusted and running out of time I decided to take the shot...

This is a composite group of pictures...



It was somewhat explosive... I did not get to see it happen next time I will as I am going to do the Ron thing and video it. It did far more than rupture the jug. There was enough downward force created by the bullet to cause the rupture of the bottom of the bucket that target was sitting on. There was enough force to move the target and bucket a distance. There was enough force and rotation to collect material in the flutes and spiral it out several feet from the target. With all of this 'explosiveness' I also know it would have all been contained inside the chest cavity - it certainly is not going to blow up a deer but it is certainly going to be destructive in the chest cavity. I felt the gallon jug laying on it's side would be near the width of the internals of a deer. And as Lehigh Dave suggested it probably only made a 1/2 of a rotation in that distance.

I have another scheme planned but do not know when I will get a chance to try it. Gotta WORK next week!

[trophyhunt]

Your reviews of this new bullet are beyond what anyone could expect, very cool.  So, are these new muzzy sabot's the real deal, I get the feeling you would take these over any bullet out there?  I shoot traditions smack down sst's, .300 gr .50 cal.  I've been impressed with them but have only killed two elk with em.  How do you compare these new sabot's to the one's I use?  And one last question, don't take this the wrong way but, do you have any connection with these new line of sabot's?  Just curious.  Thanks

[trophyhunt]

One more question, my current bullets come with the jacket, do these have a jacket as well? 

[Sabotloader]

Your reviews of this new bullet are beyond what anyone could expect, very cool.  So, are these new muzzy sabot's the real deal, I get the feeling you would take these over any bullet out there?

These new bullets have peaked an interest for me but I am still trying to figure out if they are better than the Bloodlines of the Lehigh 458x305 gr. bullet that I currently use.  Honestly I do not think they will function overall as well as the bullet I normally use.

This is the new bullet - it shows the shape and design very well.  The bullet because it is non-expanding has exceptional penetration.  And as I found out today the flutes in the nose of the bullet really what they were intended to do.... destroy internal organs while maintaining a minor effect on the entrance and exit of the animal - less wasted meat.



The bullet I currently use will often not match the penetration of the new XP but it does do the internal damage that the XP does + it also has the 6 petals the that spiral out from the bullet and cause additional damage internally.



I am loading both of these bullets in a MMP HPH-24 black sabot for my 50 cal rifles. This is a picture of the MMP sabot and the Lehigh XP bullet getting ready to go down my Knight Mountaineer.

I shoot traditions smack down sst's, .300 gr .50 cal.  I've been impressed with them but have only killed two elk with em.  How do you compare these new sabot's to the one's I use?

Please remember I am biased.... I have shot all kinds of bullets in testing and hunting and I believe the XP's and CF (controlled fracturing) bullets to be one of the best bullets out - BUT they are expensive.  Also I would add that in the normal circumstance when you make the near perfect shot (meaning shot placement) they probably would or do not do a whole lot better than what you are shooting.  The difference comes when you make a marginal shot, bullet doesn't hit the placement perfectly or you happen to shoot it through a sapling on the way to the target - these bullets will still function like you hit the sweet spot. And you will normally get a quicker harvest.

And one last question, don't take this the wrong way but, do you have any connection with these new line of sabot's?  Just curious.  Thanks

My only 'connection' is that when Nosler quit building Nosler Partitions in the sizes I needed to shoot in a ML, I went looking for another bullet that would work as well as the Partition, especially on elk.  While searching I came on Lehigh - I called and talked to Lehigh Dave we discussed the bullet and bullet operation - he sent some to try (testing) they worked and they worked well. Then when he was offering a new breech plug for Knight Rifle - I offered some thoughts and ideals on how he might build it to make it nearly 95% clean in all Knight DISC rifles.  From that point he has allowed and offered me new offerings from Lehigh in ML development for testing.  That's the connection. I have never met him personally - talked to him often on the phone bouncing thoughts back and forth and of course I have order a lot of items from him. I do not get monetary rewards from the company - sometimes I really wish I did - but then again there are times that I can really just say what I think - NOT THAT I AM ALWAYS RIGHT!

Hope that explains the connection

[trophyhunt]

Crystal clear!  Thanks for the info, is seems you are very thorough.  So I have to ask, there has been more than one thread on this site about Pellets or powder.  I prefer pellets in my T/C Xr (100gr) simply because of the simplicity.  It seems 110 or 120 grain is what most prefer, they don't make that weight in pellets, so, am I hurting my accuracy by staying with my easier to load 100gr pellets?  thanks.

[Encore 280]

Sabotloader, have you ever tried mixing up a package of jello and let it firm up a bit in a gallon jug? Seems like that might work.

[Sabotloader]

Crystal clear!  Thanks for the info, is seems you are very thorough.  So I have to ask, there has been more than one thread on this site about Pellets or powder.  I prefer pellets in my T/C Xr (100gr) simply because of the simplicity.  It seems 110 or 120 grain is what most prefer, they don't make that weight in pellets, so, am I hurting my accuracy by staying with my easier to load 100gr pellets?  thanks.

Pellets are used by as lot of people exactly for the reason you suggest.  I tried them for awhile when I was first starting ML hunting/shooting, but quickly went to loose powder because I had more of an ability to tailor loads.

They do now make a T7 Mag pellet that is equivalent to 60 grains so 2 pellets would equal the 120...

For hunting you really may not be hurting hunting accuracy that much at all.. now if you were shooting targets for a living - I am quite sure you would not use pellets.  If you have a powder scale - sometime take 10 pellets out of the box and weigh each one individually you will see what I mean.

[Sabotloader]

Sabotloader, have you ever tried mixing up a package of jello and let it firm up a bit in a gallon jug? Seems like that might work.

You know that could work very well as a matter of fact.  The best thing about this last test was I could actually spot on the ground the extent of spread the bullet caused.  The test material was such a different color than the dead field.

My next worry is that the farmer is going to start tilling and planting and then I have to be some what selective where I can shoot...  I really thought he planted winter wheat already but it really is only volunteer stuff now - but I know he is coming!