How to keep Pope lands open to hunting

[winslow]

Maybe I'm the last one to figure this out, but Pope Resources has closed ALL of its lands to hunting except by disabled hunters by special permit starting this year (2015).

I just got off the phone with someone there. She told me all lands are now closed to any shooting (not just target shooting) and to hunting, and that they have asked all neighbors to report sounds of gunshots to the sheriff, who is waiting to respond to those calls.

Here is the Jefferson county Pope resources map PDF
http://www.orm.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=QKzSIa3gCOE%3d&tabid=95

And the Pope Resources Public access page that leads to all their hunting information and maps http://www.orm.com/Timberlands/PublicUse.aspx

Did I read that all wrong?

Winslow

[JimmyHoffa]

 
That's not good.  First I heard about this.  I know that the county was trying to make the southern end of Coyle a no shooting zone and the county was also trying to make some kind of noise ordinance that would prohibit shooting before/after 'normal' hours (before 9/after 4).

[Dbax129]

Wow. Tons of people hunt that land. Any word of why they made the change?

[fishngamereaper]

That's not good. Is that Jeff co only or all lands. They don't hold as much land as they used to in Kitsap/ Mason but enough good hunting land to make a difference in where I hunt.

I wonder if they are going to go the permit only direction, charging access fee's like the other timber companies are.

[Dbax129]

So i just checked out both of the links you supplied. Oneis the hunting area map. The other is their page on public use. Neither one of them indicates any change at all from last year.  Sounds like a false alarm. It apears you read it wrong.

[Dbax129]

Maybe the lady you talked to was referring to kitsap county?  I know north kitsap land has always been closed. Or maybe she could expain to you why the website indicates its all still open?

[fishngamereaper]

So i just checked out both of the links you supplied. Oneis the hunting area map. The other is their page on public use. Neither one of them indicates any change at all from last year.  Sounds like a false alarm. It apears you read it wrong.

The links are last years. They have not updated the website. Im assuming since the OP called he got current info.

[JimmyHoffa]

The website only says for 2014, though.  He said in the phone convo that the closure starts this season.  Probably just behind on their website.

[npaull]

THIS is what kills hunting.

It's not wolves, it's not squabbles over gun laws - it's access/habitat loss.

If true, this is tragic for hunting in this state.

[winslow]

So i just checked out both of the links you supplied. Oneis the hunting area map. The other is their page on public use. Neither one of them indicates any change at all from last year.  Sounds like a false alarm. It apears you read it wrong.

When I said, "Maybe I read that wrong" I was wondering if I was misinterpreting the public access info and "Hunting map."

that's exactly why I posted this - call the number on the hunting map and ask the woman who answers. She basically threatened me with the cops. Note that that map is 2014...I did suggest that they take down outdated/wrong info before a lot of people face arrest, if her threats were real.

[winslow]

Wow. Tons of people hunt that land. Any word of why they made the change?

She didn't say.

[winslow]

That's not good. Is that Jeff co only or all lands. They don't hold as much land as they used to in Kitsap/ Mason but enough good hunting land to make a difference in where I hunt.

I wonder if they are going to go the permit only direction, charging access fee's like the other timber companies are.

I only called the number on the Jeff county map PDF. I don't know if there are separate numbers for other counties.

[JimmyHoffa]

Wow. Tons of people hunt that land. Any word of why they made the change?

She didn't say.

Last time I drove down the edge along Hood Canal, I was trying to guess how much longer it would either allow hunting or become a firearms restriction area.  Seemed on the waterfront side of the road from the firehouse on down is fancy houses jammed one right next to the other, then on the other side of the road is tree farm.  I've kind of been guessing the tree farm side would go to development.   

[Sitka_Blacktail]

THIS is what kills hunting.

It's not wolves, it's not squabbles over gun laws - it's access/habitat loss.

If true, this is tragic for hunting in this state.

Amen brother.

[MADMAX]

 

Look what a fine job Weyerhauser has done
hunted st helens since the early 80s................. no more

[dreamunelk]

For lands open to hunting it will be walk-in only.  They will have a disabled access program for motorized access.  Not much of a change since they did not have many roads open.  There are certain area where no hunting is allowed for safety reasons.  As for target shooting.  Get use to it!  To much trash left behind and to many idiots with guns.  It will not be long before all lands are closed to target shooting. 

Don't kid yourself.......Many of the posters on this site are part of the problem!

[winslow]

For lands open to hunting it will be walk-in only.  They will have a disabled access program for motorized access.  Not much of a change since they did not have many roads open.  There are certain area where no hunting is allowed for safety reasons.  As for target shooting.  Get use to it!  To much trash left behind and to many idiots with guns.  It will not be long before all lands are closed to target shooting. 

Don't kid yourself.......Many of the posters on this site are part of the problem!

That is what I thought, too. I hope you are right. What I was told on the phone was a different story - no access at all for hunting purposes, walking or driving, and no shooting AT ALL of any kind. I am going to call back tomorrow, see if I can record the call.

Yes, there was a fair amount of trash on the site I visited (Sandy Shore Lake and vicinity) as well as a significant amount of vandalism including of the sign warning that, "if the vandalism continues, the lake will be closed to all access."

I inquired specifically about the land south of the 104 near Sandy Shore Lake and generally about Pope resources land, and was told there would be no hunting allowed except for disabled access by special permit. Again, I hope I am wrong about this.

As I was leaving, there were dozens of shots being fired, clearly not someone hunting coyotes, bobcat, or cottontails. Flying in the face of requests to alter behavior is not how we are going to maintain access to these private parcels.

SMH...

[pianoman9701]

Another failure of hunters, other recreational users, and the WDFW to retain access to private timberlands. I'm sure the WDFW was as surprised by this as they were with the closure of lands around the Mt. St. Helens area, and north and west. Damage tags for the landowner should be distributed as lottery only for open hunting access to licensed hunters in the state and not to the landowner directly. I suspect that the recreational users of the land have given the landowner reasons to close off the parcels - vandalism, litter, unauthorized camping and fires, etc.

We've lost a ton of good hunting land in the state over the last few years to permit-only access and closures. I feel strongly that this is a failure of the WDFW to maintain relationships that benefit hunters and landowners alike. In addition, we, as hunters, need to do a better job of cleaning up after ourselves and policing our ranks, reporting abuses of the resource to authorities and to the landowners.

[Encore 280]

One of the things that ticks me off about the closures is that the employees and loggers still get to hunt it! WTH?!! Should be closed to everyone but I guess that's one of the benefits being an employee.

[winslow]

Getting some more clarity after spending an hour on the phone with two Pope Resources offices. I was able to turn around the dynamic with the woman I spoke with yesterday, and she backed down from "all lands will be closed" to "lands around tarboo lake and sandy shore lake are closed to all shooting activity including hunting."

According to her (but she's only worked in her current position for one month, previously she was in the corporate office), complaints to the WDFW about target shooting, vandalism, and trash/littering led to the WDFW making a request for Pope to close the areas. "When WDFW makes a request like that, we listen."

The new hunting maps will be out in August and show the updated info, along with other closures. I inquired about other hunting besides the fall season such as cottontail and bobcat (my original inquiry, actually) and she admitted that she had no idea about the rest of the year.

I have emails and phones calls coming back from two different offices when the field people get back to the office and when the boss is in. More information will follow.

Sorry for reporting what I found before I had re-investigated. Apparently the woman I talked to has a reputation for getting snippy with people and ending conversations like she did yesterday by going hugely negative instead of saying she doesn't know something. Like all bureaucracies, repercussions for bad behavior are too rare.

I will continue to investigate this and report what I can confirm. I think what we all need to take from this is that access is ours to lose. When you see/hear people endangering our access with bad or illegal behavior, do something about it, and more than that, if you've been guilty in the past, STOP IT ALREADY.

Winslow

[Bob33]

According to her (but she's only worked in her current position for one month, previously she was in the corporate office), complaints to the WDFW about target shooting, vandalism, and trash/littering led to the WDFW making a request for Pope to close the areas. "When WDFW makes a request like that, we listen."

I find that suspicious.

[pianoman9701]

  If WDFW has requested they close hunting access, that would be in direct conflict with their job as a state agency.

[fireweed]

Getting some more clarity after spending an hour on the phone with two Pope Resources offices. I was able to turn around the dynamic with the woman I spoke with yesterday, and she backed down from "all lands will be closed" to "lands around tarboo lake and sandy shore lake are closed to all shooting activity including hunting."

According to her (but she's only worked in her current position for one month, previously she was in the corporate office), complaints to the WDFW about target shooting, vandalism, and trash/littering led to the WDFW making a request for Pope to close the areas. "When WDFW makes a request like that, we listen."

The new hunting maps will be out in August and show the updated info, along with other closures. I inquired about other hunting besides the fall season such as cottontail and bobcat (my original inquiry, actually) and she admitted that she had no idea about the rest of the year.

I have emails and phones calls coming back from two different offices when the field people get back to the office and when the boss is in. More information will follow.

Sorry for reporting what I found before I had re-investigated. Apparently the woman I talked to has a reputation for getting snippy with people and ending conversations like she did yesterday by going hugely negative instead of saying she doesn't know something. Like all bureaucracies, repercussions for bad behavior are too rare.

I will continue to investigate this and report what I can confirm. I think what we all need to take from this is that access is ours to lose. When you see/hear people endangering our access with bad or illegal behavior, do something about it, and more than that, if you've been guilty in the past, STOP IT ALREADY.

Winslow

One thing I've learned working with these agencies and companies is to never trust anything anyone says--get it in writing or dig up the law or policy yourself  and see it on paper.  Oh, and the companies avoid things in writing.

[winslow]

Just got this email -

Dear Mr. Jenkins –
 
I have confirmed that no hunting is allowed on any Pope Resources/Olympic Resource Management timberland until the fall of 2015, at which time we will post 2015 hunting maps designating specified areas. The 2014 maps are being taken off the site.
 
We appreciate your checking with us on our policy.
 
Best regards,
Seanann
 
Seanann Card
Office Administrator,  Hood Canal Tree Farm
Olympic Resource Management
a Pope Resources Company
5823 NE Minder Road
Poulsbo WA 98370
Phone: (360) 297-0570  x221
Fax:     (360) 297-0580
 
From: wj [mailto:winslow.jenkins@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 9:21 AM
To: Lynne Alexander
Subject: 2015 Hunting access maps/rules

[JimmyHoffa]

I just got the same email. 

Correct me if needed, but the big mess around Tarboo Lake is because of the WDFW area at the end of the road.  Sheriff caught some people living at the boat ramp making a huge mess, and it turned out they were wanted for about half the burglaries in E Jefferson.

[winslow]

I just got the same email. 

Correct me if needed, but the big mess around Tarboo Lake is because of the WDFW area at the end of the road.  Sheriff caught some people living at the boat ramp making a huge mess, and it turned out they were wanted for about half the burglaries in E Jefferson.

Damn! I hadn't heard about that. I had to evict a meth head from some city property near my house. They don't fight too hard when confronted...we might have to take direct action if these a******s are going to ruin it for us.

[pianoman9701]

If this is the case (with the tweeker), why would they penalize all WA hunters by closing off the area? There has to be more to it than that. 

[JimmyHoffa]

If this is the case (with the tweeker), why would they penalize all WA hunters by closing off the area? There has to be more to it than that. 

I'm sure it gets plenty of other issues, but it has looked like people have generally been pretty good with this area.  (Down right nice compared to the trashing Rayonier gets out near Forks.)  It could be complaints from one of the neighbors.  One horse woman down there is a major rabble rouser concerning hunting.

[JimmyHoffa]

I just got the same email. 

Correct me if needed, but the big mess around Tarboo Lake is because of the WDFW area at the end of the road.  Sheriff caught some people living at the boat ramp making a huge mess, and it turned out they were wanted for about half the burglaries in E Jefferson.

Damn! I hadn't heard about that. I had to evict a meth head from some city property near my house. They don't fight too hard when confronted...we might have to take direct action if these a******s are going to ruin it for us.

This was one of the cases.
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20141002/NEWS/310029981
I couldn't find anything in the news about the boat ramp ones.

[MADMAX]

That s*cks been hunting those lands since 81
lots of changes , more and more gates,
But trust me they werent the ones that left all the trash and shot up TVs and clay pigeons and a 1000 empty shotgun shells over there.
Sad some shooters cant clean up there own mess
they just gated the state land near Dabob for trash shooters and dumpers

[winslow]

[/quote]
This was one of the cases.
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20141002/NEWS/310029981
I couldn't find anything in the news about the boat ramp ones.
[/quote]

That's a pretty crazy story! I hadn't encountered much property crime until I came out to WA 13 years ago. Back east, we left our cars unlocked, even with the keys in them, houses unlocked, etc.

Here (PNW), It seems anything that isn't nailed down is quickly swiped and sold for drug money. My lax attitude cost me big time right away.

Where I'm from, you respect private property and all land is assumed to be private/closed unless you know otherwise or have explicit permission, such as a state park. Here, access is assumed unless posted otherwise, which I definitely prefer, although it requires a higher level of personal responsibility. I am a respectful person so I ask if I'm unsure and don't push the limits.

I wonder if this assumed access ideology has individuals with questionable ethics going too far, such as the story above, littering and vandalism, and excessive/dangerous shooting?

[MADMAX]

Its sad indeed cause its a great area, we used to be able to camp on the multiple side roads now gated and including the power line.
I have run all those roads that some are now so overgrown you dont even know they are there, I've killed multiple blacktails and coyotes, a bear and a cougar over there.

Now its more like I hope no one breaks into my truck while I'm out hunting as I park at a gate, I started leaving my doors unlocked just so they wouldn't break my glass and taking everything of value in my daypack.

I dont really blame Pope or Weyerhauser, its the uncaring d*uchebags that dump trash and vandalize or cook meth or shoot power transformers that ruin for the rest of us.
Hell, look at the toilet at the Tarboo boat launch
I remember when they put that in and we thought excellent a toliet, now its all shot up.
Gone are the days of "lets take the kids for a drive across the bridge and see how many deer we see"
shame

[JimmyHoffa]

Yeah MM, I hear you.  It is amazing the amount of shooting that can take place in some areas.  Some weekends every gravel pit and spur road will be packed.  Most of the shooters I've talked to don't do any hunting, but say they are hopeful to do so one day.  Very few official ranges--the ones that are in the area cost about $10/person and usually have skeet events going on during weekends.

[winslow]

UPDATE:  I just got off the phone with Canal Tree Farm area manager Patrick Raymond from Olympic Resource Management (POPE). He seems to be an old-timer and a straight shooter. 

Here's what he said (prepare to be relieved):

Pope lands are OPEN for all hunting seasons, but they only focus on the fall season and that is why they publish their new maps each year in August. There is some chance you'll be hunting closed lands if you are following last year's map.

Pope lands are CLOSED to all target shooting.

He specifically made a distinction between "shooting" or "target shooting" and "hunting" - hunting ok, shooting or target shooting NOT ok.

I am super relieved that Seanann had it wrong - she was just covering her behind, I believe, and didn't want to tell me it was OK when she didn't know.

They are making a big push to stop target shooting, vandalism, and littering, and will close lands this coming season if it doesn't stop.

So there it is, gentlemen, we have a chance to keep access, but we are going to have to step up. This should be a no-brainer, right?

Winslow

[npaull]

Well I feel better about being able to hunt there still, but pessimistic about the future...

I swear, slob hunters/shooters are pretty close to the worst human beings on Earth.

[Dbax129]

So all that land there on the gravel road to tarboo lake is closed to target shooting? I have a buddy who goes shooting there from time to time and said last weekend he was there he saw a few folks with a trailer with several silhouette targets on it. They told him the cops came by earlier and told them they had to move their set up a little because they couldnt shoot over the lake.  Aparantly shooting is being allowed there though.  Its amazing how much damage is done there. I walked up to the edge of the lake and noticeds about 3 or 4 inches of the wadding out of a shotgun shell lining the shore of the lake for 30+feet either side of the launch site.  I wonder how much lead is sitting there at the bottom.