How do I become a more successful elk hunter?

[SNIPER10]

You may find some value in visiting my website,  ironmindhunting.com.  I run classes that will significantly shorten your learning time on calling in bulls and having control of your shot at the moment of truth.  If nothing else, at least listen to my podcasts on sharpsticks.tv.  Those that can learn through the mistakes of others are vastly more effective than those that can only learn through trial and error.  Life is too short to not know this stuff!!!!

Joel Turner
2x RMEF PRO DIVISION WORLD ELK CALLING CHAMPION
IRONMIND HUNTING

[Elknut1]

Levi, you mention you commonly have elk respond to you at 150 yards or so, what sounds are you using for contact, bugles, cow calling? Once in to the 40 yard realm, what sounds are you now using where they are hanging up in the 40 yard range? I believe this is where the issue is. We hunt extremely thick cover as well & may be able to shed some light on the matter. Thanks.

  ElkNut1

[LeviD1]

I will use locate bugles to find one a lot of times on a whole different ridge so we make our way obe there when we get a response. Once we close the distance a bit within a few hundred yards locate again and try and get within 150-100. Let out some cow calls and see if he responds to those at all if not then let out a shorter bugle with grunts. If he responds again try and get within 100 yards for sure and bugle and thrash a tree and grunt. We have had bulls run in at us doing this. Most the time hang up but sometimes run in and I have had one within 20 ft just came out on the other side of thick trees so I couldn't see him at all.

[kentrek]

Sounds like your having a pretty fun time on the woods !

While I know elk nut is going to respond with some awesome info il pitch a couple of my thoughrs

While you have a great routine for your tacklebox..your basically "waiting" to come across a bull with an attitude that matches your routine...while there's nothing wrong with this and killing elk that are that aggravated is freaking awesome, I think you might improve your odds with matching your routine to the bull

I Personaly dont have any experience with elk nuts products but I bet they will help cut down the learning curve to being able to this

Good luck 

[WapitiTalk1]

As Kentrek mentioned, I'm sure Paul/Elknut will chime in shortly but after reading through the thread here's a couple of my observations.  You're transitioning to diaphrams this year; that is money in the bank.  I have found that the internal reed calls are great for location bugles and can oftentimes get answers when diaphram calls can't, but, you lose versatility when in close unless you're really, really good with an internal reed tube (Glen Berry is one of the very few guys I have heard that can make multiple elk sounds on an internal reed tube).  You mentioned you bugle w/grunts sometimes when you get in close; I would recommend not doing that in most situations.  Grunts are adversarial in nature and will more often than not, send a bull packing.  Remember, the rut is all about the cows (finding cows, keeping cows, breeding cows, protecting cows from strangers).  Bulls are all about the cows and will seldom coming running in to a locator, or, a grunting bull!  Now, back to when you're in close to a bull.  If you're giving some sweet cow sounds and a bull "chuckles" back at you, he's telling you he wants you to joing him... do it.  Cut the distance, set up, and give the same sweet cow sounds... oftentimes, he will come closer to you "if" you have cut the distance and are moving towards him.  If he's a herd bull, he most likely won't leave his harem so you'll have to whizz in his wheaties to dislodge him.  I won't cow call my way into a herd bull but instead after he's located, cut the distance to less than 70 yards (same applies to dogging a moving herd to bed; stay close and when they stop....) and call to his cows using a calling cows to him bugle..  Joel Turner has a great podcast on this exacty type of strategy/bugle.  Equate this to sitting in a bar and having a guy across the room hollering at your girlfriend/wife... kinds of makes you want to go stomp him, yes?  Just a few late morning thoughts... break's over, back to work for me 

[JPhelps]

Levi,
In my opinion the BIGGEST MISTAKE made when calling elk is the intermittent calling between when you locate them and where you should setup (80-100 yards).

Here is a short article I wrote as a response to the biggest mistake when calling elk.
“LOCATION CHECK”

The urge to hear or check on a bull as you move in may be the archery elk hunter’s Achilles’ heel.  There is nothing cooler than listening to a bull bugle BUT it may hurt your chance at notching a tag.

Every year I get hundreds and hundreds of questions asking what to do, scenarios that didn’t work out, and failed attempts on hunters trying to kill a bull they heard.  It typically goes like “Well I got a bull to bugle from 400 yards away moved towards him and bugled again and nothing.  Then we moved another 50 yards and bugled and now the bull has moved away 100 yards…..”

RESIST the urge to bugle once you have located a bull.  Make your best guess to his location, check the wind and put your nose to the ground and try and get within of 100 yards of where you think his location is.  Ideally he will continue to bugle as you are moving in and allow you to pinpoint his location but if not try to get to where you think he is before making a peep.

I equate this scenario to a guy sitting in the back of a bar with his wife/girlfriend.  If someone walks in the door and yells at you from across the room you may reply back but as they get closer and you feel they are a threat you have the ability to leave and avoid conflict and the possibility of losing your lady friend.  BUT if that same guy walked across the room and didn’t say a word until he was in your face you are left with no choice but a confrontation.

I also try to avoid “shadowing” a herd.  The elk are faster then we are, it is obvious they are going somewhere else and my experience tells me it is going to be a tough bull to kill.  Instead I will try and silently get in front of them or if the pressure is low in the area maybe wait and try and get in front of them the next day.

Locate a bull, don’t make a peep until you are in the red zone (<100 yards) and hammer him with a challenge bugle is my standby.  As with anything in hunting all rules are regularly.

[DOUBLELUNG]

According to last year's game harvest report, general season archers had 5.3% success in the Northeast; so statistically you are about 1/3 of the way to your first harvest (one elk every 19 years).  947 archers killed 38 bulls and 16 cows.  On a bright note, just over 25% of all the elk killed general season are 6+ point bulls.  You are hunting low density, high security elk.  There is good age structure in the population.  I would be encouraged that you are starting out finding bulls every year. 

Mr. Phelps' advice is spot on IMHO, especially if you are trying to kill the herd bull.  I do have one different take on shadowing a herd; I've done it 4 times, no calling, and staying at least 200-300 yards downwind of the herd, where satellite bulls have heard me and also come in silently to the sound of my sneaking feet - I presume to see if I was a breedable cow away from the herd bull.  When a bull is bugling aggressively, it is often because he is warning off satellites - especially if you aren't what he is bugling back at.

One other thing to consider, because thick country elk are so challenging to get a shot at, is to scout like crazy for funnels, pinchpoints and microresources where elk are likely to appear sooner or later, where you can cut shooting lanes, and have ground blinds or tree stands set up: wallows, mineral licks, trail intersections, breaks in cliff faces, etc.  It's not as exciting as calling them in, but a lot of these guys who kill every year have a specific kill location: a wallow that is active every year, a mineral lick (or a bait pile or salt block). 

[DOUBLELUNG]

Also, a few helpful stats for narrowing down where to concentrate.  Hunted elk in forested habitat show preference for areas a mile or more from the nearest open road; landscapes with less than 1 mile of open road per square mile; preference for valleys and basins without open roads; and are most frequently found during daylight hours 1/3 of the way downslope from the ridgetop, 2/3 of the way up from the bottom. 

[JPhelps]

Doublelung, 100% agree with the difficulty in finding a good spot to setup to get the shot. In my opinion is the biggest deciding factor on sending an arrow at a bull vs. Not getting a shot off.

A lot of times we end up an unfamiliar spot on the hill to setup that is inevitably less than ideal.  Being able to read the lay of the land, knowing if you need to move to a better spot to setup, have a good read on the wind, etc.... are the most important decisions to make.

[Elknut1]

Levi, thanks for the response! Many here have given great responses for various encounters & how to handle them. First I want to say you are doing many things right! You are so close to adapting & re-adjusting your techniques to fit the encounters you are experiencing. I really like how you are locating elk through location bugling, this too is my number one way to locate & find elk in any state we hunt. Yes cow calls can locate elk but volume of that type of calling isn't as far reaching!

  You mentioned that most bulls are found through your bugling, awesome! Don't worry about grunts or chuckles at the end of a location bugle as in most cases they are not necessary or heard by distant elk when locating them. I agree that by far bugling is the best measure in finding where elk are during ones hunt.

  I'd like you to try something new here, it's an aggressive approach but I know you can do it! The results can be surprising & magical at times. This is designed more for the very tight country you are hunting.

  Although good setups are crucial to avoid hung up bulls your present encounters discussed are more about wind direction & YOUR next move. So many times we too get "Hung Up" that feeling we want bulls to do all the work at coming our way to our calling but there are times we must turn the tables & go to the bulls & I mean all the way to spitting distance in heavily timbered or brushed country, how? You do this with quick thinking & a solid plan! I have injected this type of calling strategy many times with killing results! In turn I've shared this simple strategy with others & they too have benefited.

  Here is something to consider on your next encounter once a bull is located in the thick stuff & he's responded to you locator bugle & you have his aprox location & distance. Get to a 100 yds or so of him, once there only use cow calling as you go right at him. Use higher volume cow calls excitedly at first so he can hear you then soften the calls as you cut the distance in getting closer. Many times as you do this it excites the bull & he calls to you via short one note bugles & chuckling, he's asking you to come over his way & join him. Good thing is that it doesn't matter if he's a herd bull or a satellite, he's showing interest! Too, you do not have to worry about being quiet, feel free to pound the ground & break sticks on your way to him, he thinks it's the cow choosing him over the other bull she was with & is coming his way! Whether this bull bugles or not as you call & go at him is not a big deal as you already have a good idea where he is! This situation is non intimidation to the bull when compared to going at the bull bugling a challenge. A cow coming his way is always a welcome recruit! (grin) 

  So next time you're in this situation in the tight stuff go straight to the bull cow calling, you will be amazed how he anchors himself there awaiting your entrance, in most cases he starts raking a tree or brush anticipating your arrival & displaying for you as he shows what he has to offer! ! Knock an arrow once in the 40 yard range & not before for safety reasons, slip in in on him keeping the cover between you & where he is.  We've taken many bulls taking the action to him. Of course there are other ways to take bulls but in the really tight stuff as you described this is priceless & deadly. We've taken many great bulls with this exact method. Hope this helps in your education bud!

  ElkNut1

[coachcw]

Good info elk nut  ..... aND I will add as you close keep moving to his down wind elk will always try to wind even another  elk as they close in . As you get close get tricky and call behind you and to the side . Amazing when he breaks for you how he can pin point your location. If he starts to move your way slip to the down wind side a bit and get quiet this is when he will seal his fate.

[huntnnw]

one tactic I have used around here alot is to charge a cow and intentionally bust her if you know where the bull is...as you know how thick it is around here the herd gets spread out and cant see each other in many places. When I charge the cow Ill let out a high pitch screaming bugle busting stuff as I run at her, the bull hears this commotion and usually gets fired up and will come right to you be ready as you stop alot of the time the bull will come fast!  Mind you dont push a cow if you think she will run to the where the bull is.

[LeviD1]

Thank you for the responses! I definatly will take all this info to heart and try them out if the situation arrives!

[Elknut1]

 Coachcw, thanks!

  In the technique I described cow calling your way to the bull, you do this quickly, you do not setup anywhere in-between & cast ones sounds. If you start your cow calling approach at 100 yards & head his way you do this rather quickly almost running at him for 50 yards or so then slow down & stop all calling around the 40 yard or so distance from the bull but continue right at him. Keep a sharp eye out for any other elk on your approach, it's easy to be so focused on the bulls bugling that you can get tunnel vision. (grin) Once at that 40 yard mark nock an arrow & continue forward, this happens quick & the bull generally stays put right where he is as this cow (you) comes his way not giving him the chance to move much at all her way, this pretty much takes the issue of him moving down wind on you because you are on him so quick.

  This is what makes it an aggressive move & very deadly, you don't give the bull a chance to react! All the while as you close the distance he thinks it's the cow coming as he called her to him, you're basically giving him what he's asking for! (grin)

  This technique is not designed for a bull coming your way after you called to him. This is designed for bulls that stay in the same spot & will bugle back at you but not move your way such as Levi's issue was. Sure you can stay & get in a screaming match but the bull usually wins those unless the hunter takes fast action & takes it to him!

  The cool thing about this technique is it doesn't matter how you made contact with this bull that won't move. Doesn't matter if you are bugling & raking 40 yards from him & he won't budge your way. (he generally has cows is why he won't come) All you do is switch gears & go straight to excited cow calling as if there was a cow there all along & she is now choosing the other bull that she wants to be with. This will anchor the real bull in his tracks as you cover the needed ground in a matter of seconds, yes sir he thinks it's a cow now coming to him. Things can happen quickly & ice water in your veins is a good thing to have at this time of the high adrenalin rush you will experience! (grin)

  ElkNut1

[coachcw]

Im gonna try that just for fun ! thanks ... I know last year I was cow calling and climbing a steep face right before dark . working right past rag horn bulls before I could get to the herd bull a satilite came running down the hill right to me . face off at three feet thank god for a tree or I may of had tracks across my face .  I always lean towards being aggressive way more productive.