More Sabotless Testing (Oregon-Colorado)

[Sabotloader]

I was suppose to work a 1/2 day today but the morning was so nice -I voted I not work and go do some more shooting!

What I wanted to do today was to collect velocities and see which of the two bullets fit the Mountaineer the best.  So I packed up and headed to the farm.  Got setup and placed the chrono about 10' off the muzzle.  For some reason I spend way to much time worrying about shooting the chrono than I hitting the target.  Now that I am back here I also should have moved the chrono to the target and got some 50 yard velocities... darn me!

Anyway here is the information I was seeking...

I had decided that I was going to load the .502's which seem to fit the greater portion of the newer Knight 50 cal bores than the 5015 might.  It was a great match for that bore.  I could insert it in the bore and push it down through the crown with the heal of my hand. Those of you that use a short starter it will be a easy to insert it.  Even in my tighter Ultra-Lite bore using the .502 and a short starter makes short work of loading.  In the tight bores you will be happier if you have some sort of palm saver for your ram-rod.

Another thing I wanted to prove to myself was that the bullet was sealing the gases behind the bullet.  So the first three shots were taken seating the bullet on top of 120 grains of T7-2f.  They were then shot across the chrono.  Then I loaded the same load but used a MMP sub-base.  No real difference in velocity but I think the sub-base may have effected the flight of the bullet by sticking in the powder cup of the bullet.  Anyway they did not seem as accurate as you can see.  Next I loaded the .5015 bullets in the rifle. They were fairly loose easy to load easy to get down but I felt there was enough pressure that they would not come off the powder.  The bullet did seem to contain the gas as the velocity remained relatively the same but they were a bit lower on the target.

This is my Mountaineer and yes I like thumbhole stocks



Here is the target with velocities - do not get to critical of the groups - I worry much more about the chronograph than I do - how tight the group is... I know 'cop out'

 

These are some additional pictures of the shoot activities...

[oneshot12]

  looking good  Pard  Looking mighty good  cant complain about any of those shots  be putting the critter on the ground with any of them 

[Sabotloader]

looking good  Pard  Looking mighty good  cant complain about any of those shots  be putting the critter on the ground with any of them

I am old - really old what ML rifle are you currently shooting?

[MLBowhunting]

Beautiful gun.  Nice shooting.   

[Sabotloader]

Beautiful gun.  Nice shooting.   

Thanks - I really enjoy shooting and testing - gives me something to do in retirement both from work and coaching...

[Soady]

Think those will work in an older Bighorn? Any tips you could provide would be appreciated. 

[Sabotloader]

Think those will work in an older Bighorn? Any tips you could provide would be appreciated.

In a Big Horn I am real sure the .502 will work just fine.  Do you have a short starter? I doubt that you would need it but it might be...

[oneshot12]

"I am old - really old what ML rifle are you currently shooting? "     Happens  to all of us in time            still shooting my Remington  54  SS inline you had helped me tune up last year   Pard

[pd]

Question for the OP.  Tell me about the differences in hunting rifles (muzzleloaders) for WA and ID (I notice you have a scope on yours).

I don't own a muzzleloader, and have never shot one.  I do hunt the Idaho "A" tag for elk, and if I don't tag out on the early season (I have never tagged out on the early season.......) then there is always the late seasons with a bow or muzzleloader to think about.

Your thread is very interesting.  Another firearm learn about, and I am just now trying to understand archery.   

[Sabotloader]

"I am old - really old what ML rifle are you currently shooting? "     Happens  to all of us in time            still shooting my Remington  54  SS inline you had helped me tune up last year   Pard

Ding! once again the bell rings and now I remember...  thanks

[Sabotloader]

Question for the OP.  Tell me about the differences in hunting rifles (muzzleloaders) for WA and ID (I notice you have a scope on yours).

The only real difference is that in Idaho we have to use full bore lead conicals.  I have a couple of ML scoped for use during our regular hunting season.  I do not use a centerfire rifle any longer 0 I really enjoy the challenges of shooting a ML

I don't own a muzzleloader, and have never shot one.  I do hunt the Idaho "A" tag for elk, and if I don't tag out on the early season (I have never tagged out on the early season.......) then there is always the late seasons with a bow or muzzleloader to think about.

I go the "A" route also planning on the late cow elk season for ML hunting.  But I do hunt the regular whitetail season with a what I call a modern muzzleloader - scoped using a sabot.

Your thread is very interesting.  Another firearm learn about, and I am just now trying to understand archery.   

I think there are a few folks here in Idaho that do the archery thing early and switch to a ML late.  My neighbor across the street just purchased a Wolverine for that endeavor.

[oneshot12]

Sabotloader have you shot  them at 100 yrd targets  yet  wounder what they would be like at that range  ? and are they going to make these to fit the 54 cal  ? be interested in giving them a try this year on elk or bear .    keep us posted as to how they are coming along   so far they look real good and very promising   

[Sabotloader]

Sabotloader have you shot  them at 100 yrd targets  yet  wounder what they would be like at that range  ?

That is the plan for my next outing! the question is just when will I be able to get away.  The last time I was out getting velocities I did shoot a couple of clay pigeons @ 100 but it took me four shots for two birds.  The rifle was not sighted in for that bullet and both of my two misses were high. After the two shots I was able to figure out where to hold and the next two shots did the job.

So I think I will use a another Ulite just shoot paper and see what kind of group I get.

and are they going to make these to fit the 54 cal?

Right now I doubt he will because of the caliber.  If the 50's catch on then there could be a possibility he would venture forward.

He is ready to sale the .502's but they will not fit all the guns out there.  I think Dave's feeling is he would like to start with one bullet that could fit a bunch of rifles just to see the interest.

be interested in giving them a try this year on elk or bear .

I have a two deer tags, well know I don't, I have one deer tag for sure and hoping to get drawn for a second one of them or possibly both will fall to the sabotless. Really I need/want to even try the new XP - but I need to find out if they are legal here in Idaho during rifle season - guess I had better look that one up.

keep us posted as to how they are coming along   so far they look real good and very promising

Did I ever send you any of the 50x325's? I still have a few that I was using for sabotless - but do not need anymore -they in a sabot would be huge in your Rem 54...

I am headed to Walla Walla tomorrow thru the weekend - granddaughter has softball tourney down there.  The following week the youngest granddaughter (7 years old) will be here all week for a basketball camp at the University.  She has a ton of energy and that will wipe me out trying to keep up with her.

[oneshot12]

dont think you had sent me any of those to shoot    be interesting to see how the would be on elk/deer may be .  i will pm you my address once again just in case you dont have it
          have fun with  the grand children   thats always a big kick in the pants to watch them play ball   

[BigBullDreamer11]

Those look nice!! pretty easy to load?

[Sabotloader]

Those look nice!! pretty easy to load?

I think it is really going to depend on the rifle.  At this time - Lehigh is only going to run the .502's as a test fitting test batch... If the bullet creates the interest I think it might then anything is possible in the size and weight realm.

The 502 should fit a fairly wide variety of the modern or newer 50 cal bores on the market.  Lehigh will not know for sure until they get the bullet out to a large group of people.

My ULite is a tight bore for Knight - it is .5005 land to land.  The .502's will load but I do need to use a short starter to get them through the crown.  So you can not classify them as a 'slip fit' conical.  But, switching rifles to a new 50 cal Mountaineer they are perfect as a slip fit.

One thing you do is take you rifle to a machinist and ask him if he could 'pin gauge' the bore.  That measurement would tell you a bunch about your rifle.

Lehigh is trying to figure out a way that it could offer a sample pack of the bullets for people to test the bullet.  But the way their 'contracted' shipping works it is looking like it might be more difficult than it should be.

[Soady]

Lehigh is trying to figure out a way that it could offer a sample pack of the bullets for people to test the bullet.  But the way their 'contracted' shipping works it is looking like it might be more difficult than it should be.

What if the proposed target group was willing to pay for the shipping of the sample pack in the name of research with a pay it forward % discount on the finish product? My arm could be twisted in that fashion for a win, win situation.

[Soady]

On a side thought has Lehigh ever thought of a boat tail version of any of their present offerings in the muzzleloader bullets?