Should we let the wildlife starve

[KillzElk]

Here is a list Copy & paste......

All Members E-mail List fro Wasigton State Legislature   this should make it easy for everyone..

Sorry about the confusion ... Send it to all of them they should get the hit maybe?

Here is a list Copy & paste below......


warnick.judy@leg.wa.gov     
alexander.gary@leg.wa.gov
anderson.glenn@leg.wa.gov
angel.jan@leg.wa.gov
appleton.sherry@leg.wa.gov
armstrong.mike@leg.wa.gov
bailey.barbara@leg.wa.gov         
becker.randi@leg.wa.gov       
benton.don@leg.wa.gov         
berkey.jean@leg.wa.gov         
blake.brian@leg.wa.gov       
brandland.dale@leg.wa.gov
brown.lisa@leg.wa.gov         
campbell.tom@leg.wa.gov     
carlyle.reuven@leg.wa.gov     
carrell.michael@leg.wa.gov   
chandler.bruce@leg.wa.gov   
chase.maralyn@leg.wa.gov   
chopp.frank@leg.wa.gov       
clibborn.judy@leg.wa.gov     
cody.eileen@leg.wa.gov       
condotta.cary@leg.wa.gov     
conway.steve@leg.wa.gov       
cox.don@leg.wa.gov             
crouse.larry@leg.wa.gov       
dammeier.bruce@leg.wa.gov
darneille.j@leg.wa.gov         
debolt.richard@leg.wa.gov     
delvin.jerome@leg.wa.gov       
dickerson.marylou@leg.wa.gov
driscoll.john@leg.wa.gov       
dunshee.hans@leg.wa.gov     
eddy.deborah@leg.wa.gov     
eide.tracey@leg.wa.gov     
ericks.mark@leg.wa.gov
ericksen.doug@leg.wa.gov     
fairley.darlene@leg.wa.gov     
finn.fred@leg.wa.gov           
flannigan.dennis@leg.wa.gov
franklin.rosa@leg.wa.gov       
fraser.karen@leg.wa.gov       
goodman.roger@leg.wa.gov
grant-herriot.laura@leg.wa.gov
green.tami@leg.wa.gov         
haigh.kathy@leg.wa.gov         
haler.larry@leg.wa.gov           
hargrove.jim@leg.wa.gov       
hatfield.brian@leg.wa.gov
hasegawa.bob@leg.wa.gov       
haugen.marymargaret@leg.wa.gov
herrera.jaime@leg.wa.gov     
hewitt.mike@leg.wa.gov       
hinkle.bill@leg.wa.gov         
hobbs.steve@leg.wa.gov       
holmquist.janea@leg.wa.gov
honeyford.jim@leg.wa.gov     
hope.mike@leg.wa.gov         
hunt.sam@leg.wa.gov                 
hunter.ross@leg.wa.gov       
hurst.christopher@leg.wa.gov
jacks.jim@leg.wa.gov           
jacobsen.ken@leg.wa.gov       
jarrett.fred@leg.wa.gov         
johnson.norm@leg.wa.gov     
kagi.ruth@leg.wa.gov                 
kastama.jim@leg.wa.gov         
kauffman.claudia@leg.wa.gov
keiser.karen@leg.wa.gov     
kelley.troy@leg.wa.gov           
kenney.phyllis@leg.wa.gov     
kessler.lynn@leg.wa.gov       
kilmer.derek@leg.wa.gov       
king.curtis@leg.wa.gov         
kirby.steve@leg.wa.gov       
kline.adam@leg.wa.gov       
klippert.brad@leg.wa.gov       
welles.jeanne@leg.wa.gov     
kretz.joel@leg.wa.gov                 
kristiansen.dan@leg.wa.gov
liias.marko@leg.wa.gov         
linville.kelli@leg.wa.gov       
marr.chris@leg.wa.gov           
maxwell.marcie@leg.wa.gov
mcauliffe.rosemary@leg.wa.gov
mccaslin.bob@leg.wa.gov     
mccoy.john@leg.wa.gov         
mccune.jim@leg.wa.gov       
mcdermott.joe@leg.wa.gov   
miloscia.mark@leg.wa.gov     
moeller.jim@leg.wa.gov       
morrell.dawn@leg.wa.gov     
morris.jeff@leg.wa.gov         
morton.bob@leg.wa.gov         
nelson.sharon@leg.wa.gov       
oemig.eric@leg.wa.gov           
orcutt.ed@leg.wa.gov                 
ormsby.timm@leg.wa.gov     
orwall.tina@leg.wa.gov         
parker.kevin@leg.wa.gov       
parlette.linda@leg.wa.gov       
pearson.kirk@leg.wa.gov       
pedersen.jamie@leg.wa.gov
pettigrew.eric@leg.wa.gov       
pflug.cheryl@leg.wa.gov       
prentice.margarita@leg.wa.gov
pridemore.craig@leg.wa.gov
priest.skip@leg.wa.gov         
probst.tim@leg.wa.gov         
quall.dave@leg.wa.gov       
ranker.kevin@leg.wa.gov         
regala.debbie@leg.wa.gov       
roach.dan@leg.wa.gov           
roach.pam@leg.wa.gov         
roberts.maryhelen@leg.wa.gov     
rockefeller.phil@leg.wa.gov
rodne.jay@leg.wa.gov                 
rolfes.christine@leg.wa.gov   
ross.charles@leg.wa.gov         
santos.sharontomiko@leg.wa.gov
schmick.joe@leg.wa.gov         
schoesler.mark@leg.wa.gov       
seaquist.larry@leg.wa.gov       
sells.mike@leg.wa.gov           
shea.matt@leg.wa.gov         
sheldon.timothy@leg.wa.gov
shin.paull@leg.wa.gov         
short.shelly@leg.wa.gov       
simpson.geoff@leg.wa.gov     
smith.norma@leg.wa.gov       
springer.larry@leg.wa.gov     
stevens.val@leg.wa.gov       
sullivan.pat@leg.wa.gov       
swecker.dan@leg.wa.gov     
takko.dean@leg.wa.gov         
tom.rodney@leg.wa.gov       
upthegrove.dave@leg.wa.gov
vandewege.kevin@leg.wa.gov
wallace.deb@leg.wa.gov     
warnick.judy@leg.wa.gov           
white.scott@leg.wa.gov         
williams.brendan@leg.wa.gov
wood.alex@leg.wa.gov         
zarelli.joseph@leg.wa.gov       

[InsideWDFW]

I am very concerned as a Washington Hunter, with about 55% of our states ELK heard reportedly starved to death in 2008 it seems as though the Department of Fish & Wildlife are not enhancing the life of our wildlife in Washington. 
Their mission is:
The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) serves Washington's citizens by protecting, restoring and enhancing fish and wildlife and their habitats, while providing sustainable and wildlife-related recreational and commercial opportunities.

If you or I let our animals on our property starve to death we would be penalized, fined and possibly thrown in jail, yet these department officials are not held accountable for their actions.

We as hunters need to stand up and be heard about our concerns so we can continue to hunt in years to come.  We should demand answers for why these elk have been dying. Is it starvation, poisoning from the herbicides and pesticides or hoof rot?  The last time a study was done on the Mt. Saint Helen's Elk heard was 1983, the environment has significantly changed in the past 26 years. 

 
No other states starve wildlife like the state of Washington.  Other states realize this is a natural resource for income and should be well taken care of and managed. We must contact our legislators and demand changes.  You can also contact the interim Director of Fish and Wildlife at:
Mailing Address
600 Capitol Way N.
Olympia, WA 98501-1091

Phil Anderson
Interim Director

director@dfw.wa.gov

Bruce, you are getting old.  I'm calling ya on this on, where the hell do you get 50%?  Also a couple of points I'm going to nail you on if you choose to respond.. Something happened 28 years ago that drastically altered the landscape to the benefit of the elk, allowing the population to grow larger then normal, know what it was? Next, you seem to think that WDFW has magical trees that sprout money instead of leaves.. mind telling me where we keep em?  We could use them to survive the $8,000,000,000 shortfall.  And finally I failed to see where WDFW proposed outlawing the feeding of animals in our latest proposals (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonsetting/index.htm).  Could it be that some legislature heard too many complaints about suburbanites feeding raccoons and decided to tack on a few more animals to the bill that HE created and sponsored?

WDFW has enough things you can bitch and moan about, there's no reason to make crap up.

[KillzElk]

Then why don't you tell all of us what is really going on Huh?  Don't leave us hanging we go to the meeting ,watch the news,read papers, Etc. Not gonna go on about it stop your crying when you get called out on something.  InsideWDFW   

[MichaelJ]

You guys really think that the WDFW wants to let elk starve so you can't hunt them?  Are you serious???  There's a lot of things I disagree with but that is just nuts.  Even the non hunters in the WDFW know that they get a large amount of revenue from hunters and they want to keep their jobs...  Quit with the doom and gloom...

Maybe there's other factors like lack of budget, lack of ability to logg places and allow new browse to grow, lack of habitat and increasing amounts of developement???  Maybe the WDFW realizes that the herd is over populated and the only way to bring the numbers down is to let nature take its course, and let the best of the elk survive and let the weaker ones die off and they will bring their numbers back down...

Michael

PS:  I don't know a whole lot about that elk herd, so my opinions and conjectures are just things off the top of my head.  But I will tell you that I have seen most of InsideWDFW posts and the guy appears honest as far as they allow him to be, and he genuinely wants to give us hunters here an inside look into issues regarding the WDFW... 

Michael

[Buckrub]

Bruce, you are getting old.  I'm calling ya on this on, where the hell do you get 50%?  Also a couple of points I'm going to nail you on if you choose to respond.. Something happened 28 years ago that drastically altered the landscape to the benefit of the elk, allowing the population to grow larger then normal, know what it was? Next, you seem to think that WDFW has magical trees that sprout money instead of leaves.. mind telling me where we keep em?  We could use them to survive the $8,000,000,000 shortfall.  And finally I failed to see where WDFW proposed outlawing the feeding of animals in our latest proposals (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonsetting/index.htm).  Could it be that some legislature heard too many complaints about suburbanites feeding raccoons and decided to tack on a few more animals to the bill that HE created and sponsored?

WDFW has enough things you can bitch and moan about, there's no reason to make crap up.

[/quote]

The mountain may have blew and created a vast feeding ground for the elk. This was no reason to create a lottery hunt management system for the area, and the loowit as an elk viewing area how else could it turn out?  I don't believe the 50% is accurate but also don't agree with the management for this area and others. Why should the elk suffer for lack of management?
The wdfw's inability to manage a herd is what has brought this on.....I would like to know the name of the person who drafted the idea the quality permit revenue system? 

This bill is unenforceable and should be killed, once again the left trying to impose a worthless and costly law on the citizens of Washington.

[billythekidrock]

Bruce, you are getting old.  I'm calling ya on this on, where the hell do you get 50%?  Also a couple of points I'm going to nail you on if you choose to respond.. Something happened 28 years ago that drastically altered the landscape to the benefit of the elk, allowing the population to grow larger then normal, know what it was? Next, you seem to think that WDFW has magical trees that sprout money instead of leaves.. mind telling me where we keep em?  We could use them to survive the $8,000,000,000 shortfall.  And finally I failed to see where WDFW proposed outlawing the feeding of animals in our latest proposals (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonsetting/index.htm).  Could it be that some legislature heard too many complaints about suburbanites feeding raccoons and decided to tack on a few more animals to the bill that HE created and sponsored?

WDFW has enough things you can bitch and moan about, there's no reason to make crap up.

I agree 100%

[KillzElk]

Man should feed the elk! Does not the elk feed the man? This is the circle of life. What happens when the circle is broken? If man does not feed the elk now, how can the elk in turn feed the man in the future? Think about it!

The Preservation Society has only six members, but donations from a variety of sources cover nearly all the cost of feeding, which Smith estimated at $8,000 to $12,000 for the winter.
The Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife feeds elk every winter at its Jewell Meadows Wildlife Area south of Clatskanie, attracting 80,000 visitors per year. In December, reservations for riding on the Jewell hay wagon were all booked in four hours.
But the Washington DFW is not about to follow the Jewell model. In fact, the WDFW doesn’t recommend that anyone else feed elk.
Quote:
“We highly recommend that people not do it,” said Sandra Jonker, the WDFW’s regional wildlife manager. “It causes more problems in the long run than it helps.”
For one thing, it takes the animals a while to adjust from one kind of food supply to another, she said. And elk that rub shoulders in the dinner line are more likely to pass diseases.

The DFW doesn’t want elk to become dependent on food provided by people. “Our goal is to get that herd back into balance so it’s self-sustaining,” Jonker said.
A bill that’s been introduced in the state House of Representatives would prohibit the public from feeding wildlife.
A sponsor, Rep. Brian Blake (D-Aberdeen) told the Olympian he’d try to amend it to allow Smith’s feeding to continue.
Rep. Dean Takko (D-Longview), another co-sponsor, said the bill is meant to address concerns in urban areas and may need revision.
“It’s not my intent to get Mark and his group in some kind of trouble,” Takko said.


DFW watching for hoof rot:
The Department of Fish and Wildlife has been getting reports of limping elk from Longview to Chehalis the past few years.
DFW biologists have said there are about 40 kinds of hoof rot.

Starting in March, the agency will start gathering elk limbs “to try to find out what type of hoof rot this is,” said Sandra Jonker, the DFW’s regional wildlife manager. The disease might be caused by “a host of things,” she said. “Not that we can cure it but hopefully narrow it down to which one is causing it.”

When landowners get special permits to shoot elk eating their crops, a DFW worker will take a piece of the leg for study. They’ll get samples from animals that look healthy and those that don’t, Jonker said.

The state biologists need to get out from behind their desks and get out in the country a bit more often and then maybe they will learn something. My hat is off to Mr. Smith. Lots of you keep hammering bbarnes it looks to me he also is trying to find a solution to help out. This is my overview on things.

If groups of people will donate the money to help feed these starving animals....what is it hurting? Can't believe that the politicians in Olympia would see these animals starve to death.  :beatdeadhorse:Goes to show how screwed up our entire system is.....top to bottom.

What would the DFW like to see these elk starve to death? God bless Mr.Smith and the rest of these people that are trying to save these elk. It makes sense that without proper nutrition these animals would have foot rot and other disease. We as humans need proper nutrition as well. So why waste money on studying what is wrong with these animals and instead put the money towards food for them.


Man should feed the elk! Does not the elk feed the man? This is the circle of life. What happens when the circle is broken? If man does not feed the elk now, how can the elk in turn feed the man in the future? Think about it!

[billythekidrock]

I agree that the bios need to have more field experience, but your "circle of life" crap is down right funny.
You sure have a skewed way of looking at things...or you are not conveying your thoughts to text very well.

[InsideWDFW]

Now granted my buddy Barnes hasn't shown up, but you guys seem pretty riled up.  To start with, the HB 1885.  WDFW did not ask for this piece of legislation.  While I can't say who (the name has been mentioned), it wasn't us.  We were not notified, asked our opinion, or even told about it.  This truly is legislation created to appease city dwellers who get angry when elk eat their rose bush, or the coyote runs off with the lose chihuahua.  We all know this is a garbage law, and so do a lot of people in the dome.  This is one of those grandstanding things to get votes, but won't (probably) pass.  Relax.  And again WDFW had nothing to do with this one.  It's like bitching about GM because your Toyota broke down.

Next WDFW resources.  Guys (and gals) I can't stress enough how much is on the chopping block.  As an example we got an e-mail today asking us to use a black and white printer over a color printer.. a savings of $.0039, yes that is .39 of a cent, per page.  This is how tight the purse strings are.  Spending money at this point in time is not an option, especially on something that is not a necessity (relax, I'll explain).

Next I saw a couple of later posts complaining the lack of field work of our biologists.  There are 17 District biologists with 1 or 2 biologists underneath them.  Add a few odd bios not working for a district, and we have about 60 bios in the field.  That's around 60 biologists TOTAL for the 71,303 sq. miles of Washington, or 1188 sq. miles for each bio to cover.  Now remember these guys work on ALL of Washington's species, not just the big game that you are interested in.  So we have a bio covering 1188 sq miles and thousands of species.  Get were I am going?  And yes these guys are in the field, rain or shine 75% of the time.  Even the Deer/Elk manager for the entire state is trudging up the same hills you do during hunting season on a regular basis.  If you happen to live near Olympia, swing by (after the special hunt is over please) and tell me how many people you see in the wildlife office that look like they don't do field work.  And the Olympia office is the "paper pushing" hub of the agency.

As far as hoof rot (and hair slip syndrome in deer) it's like dogs and worms.  There are remedies, but no cures.  You can deworm your dog, but the minute he gets around another pooch with worms, he's got them again.  We can take an elk into a vet, fix him good as new, but the minute he gets around another elk with hoof rot, he's hurting again.  It would take rounding up every single elk in the state (and neighboring states too, elk don't have to stop at border crossings), giving them the specific remedy for their specific bacteria (there are over 40, each one needed a different fix) and keeping them penned in for a few months while the bacteria die in the wild.  I dare someone to figure out the cost for that one.  And yes I simplified the problem.  Why some people have this idea that WDFW loves to see animals suffer and die is beyond me.

And finally the meat of the thread.  Two sources I'm going to cite (you watching Barnes?).  The 2007 Status and Trend report (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/status/07trend.pdf) starting on page 89, and the 2006 St. Helens plan (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/elk/sthelens_final_nov2006.pdf).  First off the winter mortality rate was not even close to 55% this year.  We won't have the numbers for a bit, but talking with one of those guys who "need to get out from behind their desks and get out in the country" we're looking at 10-15%.  This may seem like a lot, but in actuality is pretty normal.  Though when you take 15% of 12,000 (est. heard population) you can understand how the picture on tv can look graphic.  The only place where I could find anything resembling 50% of anything was bull mortality due to hunters (a good thing).  Everything else I could find was under 20%, even worse case guesses.  I'm realy curious where Bruce pulled 55% out of.

So why don't we want them fed?  First it really does create a dependency on humans.  What's going to happen to all those elk that Mr. Smith is so gallantly feeding when he stops (aka dies)?  They might stick around due to habit and decide that the rose bush (see legislation at the beginning) looks good enough to eat.

Second when you mass elk in a common area, such as a feeding (look at the picture from http://www.tdn.com/articles/2009/02/06/this_day/doc498c6d3e0fc30585387160.txt), you are going to spread hoof rot.  Next how do you think they get there?  I'm sure they obey all traffic laws when crossing the street.  And finally do you think that elk are the only ones hanging around for food?  I'm curious how many cats were hanging on the edges.

Third, I'm sure Mr. Smith is happy with spending the $12,000 on his 80 head of elk.  Now when he wants to spend the 1.8 million to feed the rest of the herd (12,000 animals) then that would be worthy of a news article.  Of course if he wants to feed them something more nutritious than junk food, he'll need around 3. (That is 10% of the shortfall we are looking at next biennium)

And finally the habitat.  The St Helen's heard exploded after the mountain blew.  Nature is finally getting back to normal, and this includes thinning the heard through loss of prime habitat.  Add to the fact that humans are having this lovely time building roads and houses, and hopefully you can understand why the herd needs to shrink.  WDFW is not the bad guy here, we just have a crappy PR department.

You all seem like smart folks, so this should come as no surprise but everyone has an agenda.  I want to make WDFW a bit better, Bruce has "sky is falling" vendetta against WDFW, and newspapers want to sell newspapers.  Can't do much about the newspapers (come on guys, you know they spin crap to yank at the heart), but I can call people like Bruce out on their BS.  As far as making WDFW look good, that's what I'm trying to do right now.

[bbarnes]

Just returned home from testifying at the mt saint helen's advisory board, trying to do my part in saving 110 thousand acres from being taken from us hunters.I appreciate all the post and will address your concern tomarrow evening when i get home from work.  thanks B barnes

[KillzElk]

I see you (InsideWDFW) missed another great meeting  Maybe you can make the trip to  voice your opion to just one thank you,, I see that you are trying  represent or misrepresent the WDFW you should speak out at a public meeting ..
Thank You bbarnes for making the trip to every meeting in Wa. to help everyone in the Wa area out.. All that you were not there would have liked the statement bbarnes had for the panel very priceless Paul Pierce stands silent after    ... 

Anyways see the full article here...

Mount St. Helens panel hears from public on draft plan Monday, March 30, 2009
Link:
http://www.tdn.com/articles/2009/03/31/top_story/doc49d16007f408c282374700.txt


Related articles:

Public access to High Lakes may require major public funding  (March 20)
http://www.tdn.com/articles/2009/03/20/this_day/doc49c2c364e563f168529464.txt

Mount St. Helens National Park supporters aren't backing down  (March 5)
http://www.tdn.com/articles/2009/03/05/area_news/doc49b099585c73b861331943.txt

The vision for Mount St. Helens  (March 2)
http://www.tdn.com/articles/2009/03/02/top_story/doc49ab8d8a97d82576849264.txt

[elkangel]

DFWINSIDER, or what ever your name is, This is Mr. Smith,  I would like to address your accusations regarding my feeding practice.  And, since I have not received a call or email from you to verify my position, thoughts or understanding of the area I can only assume you have come up with your opinion on your own or based it on the WDFW data.  So here is the rests of the story at Mt St Helens, Again.

Before the eruption, elk were not so abundant, hunting pressure was so great in 1979 that a herd was pushed up and across the top of the mountain, at that time that was a 9600 foot climb, about 4000 feet above the Mountains timber line.   This was documented by the Longview Daily News, Nov, 1979, just 6 months before the eruption.

Then on May 18 1980 the natural volcanic event occurred, changing the landscape and lives of all things within a 150 mile  square mile ratio of the mountains north side.  That was the last time that the area was in a natural state, that  your WDFW keeps referring to.   In just a few short months, giant pumps were placed in Spirit Lake to stabilize the lake and keep it from Naturally finding an outlet and Naturally flooding down the N fork toutle river valley.  To help stop the Natural erosion effects on the land scape the department of agriculture introduced a helicopter seeding program to seed the area for the next 10 years.  This help create the man made vegetation for wildlife coming back to the area.  This seeding was so controversial that Weyco did not allow it to happen on their land, seeing that it could create problems in the future. 

Next came the problem of mud flow, the Natural path was down the N Fork Toutle River to the Cowlitz, down the Columbia to the Ocean at Long beach.  But, do to man's cities down stream, Man threw the US Army Corp constructed two sediment dams, one at approx the 29 mile just above the old camp baker sight and the other at 22mile, we now know as sediment dam road.  These man made structures were designed to hold back the Natural flow of sediment from Naturally going down stream.  Instead they now back up behind the dams, consuming more and more natural fish and wildlife habitat each year. These acts of man have all but made eliminated all native fish from returning to the N. Fork Toutle River, its tributaries and Spirit Lake.  They current Salmon run is only being sustained by man's efforts.  They are captured at the Fish Retention facility, tagged, put in a truck and driven up stream around the dam and put back in what in Hoffstad Creek so they can get to spawning streams.  Then the smolt have to find their way threw the mud flow, past the sediment dam, over the fish collection facility to the N. Fork and the Green river junction.  It is Clear that without Man's help no sea going fish could Naturally survive about the Fish Collection facility.  To date the US Army Corp estimates 3.5 mile back up behind the sediment dam, with an estimated 1.4 mil cubic yards of deb re, and their dam is full.  They hope to have a new study out addressing this matter this year, but don't hold your breath. 

Then of coarse there was the timber salvage and reforestation done by primarily Weyco on their own land. Approximately 48 thousand acres was salvaged and replanted in about 4 years.  It help create jobs and keep our economy going.  This also created one of the largest uniform forest ever planted by man, making 48 thousand acres of habitat grow at the same controlled rate. Meaning that Wildlife habitat would experience major radical changes from, again man made decisions.  There is no way Nature could have replanted over 18,400,000 fir seedlings in 4-5 years over the 48 thousand acres.  Make it clear that I agree with Weyco's Decision, but the WDFW Biologist needed to consider the effects of the timber growth over the next 25 years in their carring capacity and habitat management plans.

Wildlife management plan, GMU's and access they all play into the problem.  Controlled hunting in the early years was prudent.  Access to the area was limited and escape cover was limited so the early rules seamed to make sense.  But like most of the WDFW management plans they were made and left alone.  They needed to be visited regularly and evaluated in habitat and population control. Instead, like Mt. St. Helens itself they were forgoten, instead they bragged that it had become the largest elk herd in the State, with large bulls and herd numbers seldom seen today.  This unfortunately was true and unrecognized by the WDFW the herd had reached dangerous peek, with no plan to deal with them.  In 2001 Fred Dobbler, region 5, retired now, started writing the Mt. St Helens Herd plan.  If you read it, it was a good plan and pointed out concerns and direction to manage the herd, at least it was a start.  But, the plan was not implimented, no plan was until 2005 when Ed Orrcut called for the directors resignation.  Then mysteriously the plan was updated and implemented in just 3 short months.  The only problem then was that the 2001 plan was based on data collected mostly in 1995 and the 2005 plan updates were based on the 2001 plan.  New information was necessary to address the current conditions of the herd, but was not available.

The Elk augmentation program in 2002-2005, under cooperation with the Tribes we trapted and relocated 100 elk, and took them to the Nooksac valley.  During the first capture it was clear that the elk being captured were not all in great conditions, as we had been lead to believe.  The body conditions were poor going into winter, this was determined by the Cooks, private elk Bio's that were hired to assit with the capture.  The data pointed out that the herds health was in reiteration.  It pointed out that there was a concern regarding summer habitat as well as winter, but the WDFW did not act on the data.

Habitat Management, has only been a concern since the winter die off of 1998, the WDFW then under public pressure started seeding, fertilizing and planting trees in the Loowit wildlife refuge only.   The WDFW has pumped thousands of tax dollars into the habitat restoration in the Loowit Wildlife Area only, I my self work for over 3 year to plan seed and over 6000 trees, our preservation society worked with an adopt an acre program that raised over $67 thousand dollars from private and WDFW Grants.  To date the Loowit wildlife area has a net loss in carring capacity and habitat.  Yet the WDFW is again this year, doing the same things with new volunteers and thousands more tax payer dollars, that were granted last year, so it's spend them fast,  expecting different results. Their is a name for Individuals who do this, but I guess it doesn't apply to State agency's.   

The WDFW is always saying that the die off is Natural, the area is Natural, it is all just a Natural process.  IF this is true why are they working so hard to change the "Natural" process effecting the Loowit Wildlife Refuge?

Then in 2007 and 2008  under public pressure the WDFW started a feeding program.  They first counted 700-800 animals in the area, when the winter mortality was 169,(only dead animals on the flat mud flow counted) this keeps their % at their fictitious 10-15%.  It does not matter how many die, what the % is what matters is that we have hoof rot, deformed antlers, small late calf birthing, and generally poor body conditions occurring in our elk.  All of the diseases that I read about in elk all lead back to two major causes, over population and lack of habitat, equals starvation.  When anything is in poor condition it is more susceptible to disease.  We have a sick herd, they are sick year round. The WDFW needs to recognize that the herd was created by man made decisions, both on harvesting and habitat.  So, this being know, What is Natural?
Is it not Natural Now that we know how we got here, to Naturally want to help.  So, instead of disagreeing, making excuses and name calling.  Why don't we all sit down and put our energy into putting together a plan to solve the problem, we created.  I don't really like feeding wild animals, but under the current conditions along SR 504, at Mt St Helens I feel that we need to assist with a subsidized feeding program, until the habitat carring capacity for summer and winter is brought in line with the herd population.  I also feel this could be accomplished over a 3-5-10 year program that would incorporate feeding, habitat resoration and more selective controlled harvest.   I leave you with this thoughts, is Nature a problem or does man create the problem when he tries to change what is Natural?   and then uses Nature as his excuse.

Thank you WDFINSIDER, or what ever your name is for bringing your concerns and questions to the table.  I have never claimed to know everything, never claimed to have all the answers either.  But, I do know that what is happening and it is anything but NATURAL, it is was caused by Man Made Decisions to protect Man with little regard for the Fish, Wildlife and Habitat along the N. Fork Toutle River.

Please feel free to contact me if you need any more information or have any questions, or would like to share your ideas to help solve this problem.  Sorry I could not write more, or if I missed anything,  I have to go work on my Park.

Mark Smith

[Buckrub]

I'm with you Mr. Smith.

Overpopulation due to lack of proper management is a disgrace.
Revenue based permit hunting has failed in the Margret and the elk viewing area "loowit" was a total failure to the herd.

Let the elk be healthy with feeding, reduce the herd numbers with hunting and preserve habitat to increase the capacity.


I can't help with money but if you need volunteers I'm in....just shoot me a pm. I live near enough to help with manpower.

[actionshooter]

These 2 threads aren't related are they?
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,24114.45.html

[stumprat]

Leave them to natural selection!..........NO MORE BAILOUTS.