Access permits and hunting seasons

[Sitka_Blacktail]

With the talk of Weyerhauser taking over Plum Creek and speculation that these timberlands will soon go to fee hunting, it brought up a thought with me.

The State is still setting seasons based on open access. What I mean is, hunters have to choose their weapon which dictates what seasons they get to hunt and in the case of archery and Black powder hunters, which units they get to hunt. It does no good to open a unit to archery or black powder hunting if the unit is a mostly fee  hunting unit and the permits have been gobbled up by modern firearms hunters who outnumber archery and black powder hunters by a considerable amount. and sometimes the early and late seasons are open in different units. So say a bow hunter gets a permit from Weyerhauser to hunt the early season in one unit, but in the late season, that unit isn't open to archery, but a different one is and in that unit, you need a Rayonier permit.  And the lease areas allow even less access.

One solution would be to allow archery and black powder hunters to have access to all units the same as modern hunters. That way if you had to buy a permit to access a hunting area from a timber company, you don't need to buy another one if it was even available for a late season in a different area. You can hunt the weapon of choice where your access permit is good.

Any other ideas?

[bobcat]

Good thought. Something needs to change with the seasons to adjust to the drastic change in areas that are available to hunt. This is mainly a SW Washington issue right now.

I don't know what the answer is. The state generally doesn't like to have the same units open for archery and muzzleloader at the same time. So I'm not sure how your idea would work.

I do know I paid a lot of money for a Weyerhaeuser permit and I only got 7 days to hunt elk. No late muzzleloader season there because it is open for archery.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Might have to shorten the archery season so they don't overlap. 

I do know that for example, in 660 Minot Peak, for deer, Modern hunters get 19 days of buck hunting, Bow hunters get 67 days of ANY deer hunting, and black powder hunters get 9 days of buck hunting.

I think they could afford to take a week or two from the archers and throw that to black powder hunters so they could also have a late season there. It's crazy that modern hunters get more time in that unit than black powder hunters.

Then there is the question of making hunters buy two separate access permits (again if they are even available) to hunt deer and elk.

[bowbuild]

With the talk of Weyerhauser taking over Plum Creek and speculation that these timberlands will soon go to fee hunting, it brought up a thought with me.

The State is still setting seasons based on open access. What I mean is, hunters have to choose their weapon which dictates what seasons they get to hunt and in the case of archery and Black powder hunters, which units they get to hunt. It does no good to open a unit to archery or black powder hunting if the unit is a mostly fee  hunting unit and the permits have been gobbled up by modern firearms hunters who outnumber archery and black powder hunters by a considerable amount. and sometimes the early and late seasons are open in different units. So say a bow hunter gets a permit from Weyerhauser to hunt the early season in one unit, but in the late season, that unit isn't open to archery, but a different one is and in that unit, you need a Rayonier permit.  And the lease areas allow even less access.

One solution would be to allow archery and black powder hunters to have access to all units the same as modern hunters. That way if you had to buy a permit to access a hunting area from a timber company, you don't need to buy another one if it was even available for a late season in a different area. You can hunt the weapon of choice where your access permit is good.

Any other ideas?
[/quote


Weyerhauser (and others) end game is to have landowner issued permits (my opinion). Long ago before the permits were set in stone I complained of this very problem with buying a permit, and because of split seasons and closing units not being able to use the permits in the late hunt. Rifle hunters don't deal with this as far as I can tell

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Rifle hunters still need to be sure they can purchase an access permit if they are drawn in a draw hunt.

One other possibility would be to forbid any drawings for any property that isn't open for all hunters. Or to specify that the draw tag isn't good on private property that isn't open to the public.

[bobcat]

The issue this year was the timing of the Weyerhaeuser access permit sales. They went up for sale after the deadline for special permit applications, but before the drawing results were available. I applied for hunts which would require a Weyerhaeuser access permit, not yet knowing that I'd even be able to buy the access permit.

Either the state or Weyerhaeuser needs to change the dates so that people already have their access permit in hand before applying for special permit hunts. It would be nice if Weyerhaeuser and the WDFW could coordinate the timing of that so that hunters are not in limbo like we were this year.

[fireweed]

From what I hear Weyco will be year round permit required in 2016  for each tree farm--at basically double the price for St. Helens ($300).  So when my kid turns 18 next year our house has to spend $600 to simply go for a walk to the nearby creek.

How about instead of the state bending over backward to benefit the fee system (like they did in Margaret) we get the governor to stand up to them like the Montana governor did in a letter which basically threatens all their tax perks
http://governor.mt.gov/Portals/16/docs/2015PressReleases/20151119_Doyle_Simons_%20Weyerhaeuser_CEO.pdf?ver=2015-11-19-151958-630

weyco's VIP's aren't too happy about this letter.

[bobcat]

If the governor "stands up to them" what's to prevent them from allowing no access other than walking in? So we have free "access" but still can't hunt the majority of their land because it's just too far to hike in and out every day.

Be careful what you wish for.

[MADMAX]

The whole thing is because of vandalism, trash dumping, etc on private lands.
Unfortunately we are are own worst enemy,,,,,,,,,,,,, the bad apples.
If it was like an access fee which also allowed camping and done per family it would be ok with me at this point.
everything I used to hunt is gated anyway, the part I hate is leaving my vehicle where it also can be messed with.

[NoBark]

"Our" Gov has no balls to stand up with.  He's too busy in Paris to worry about Weyco and their schemes.

[pianoman9701]

Might have to shorten the archery season so they don't overlap. 

I do know that for example, in 660 Minot Peak, for deer, Modern hunters get 19 days of buck hunting, Bow hunters get 67 days of ANY deer hunting, and black powder hunters get 9 days of buck hunting.

I think they could afford to take a week or two from the archers and throw that to black powder hunters so they could also have a late season there. It's crazy that modern hunters get more time in that unit than black powder hunters.

Then there is the question of making hunters buy two separate access permits (again if they are even available) to hunt deer and elk.

They already did that - no thanks.

[JimmyHoffa]

"Our" Gov has no balls to stand up with.  He's too busy in Paris to worry about Weyco and their schemes.

Are Syrian refugees interested in hunting (other than infidels)?  He wants to bring them all to Washington, so maybe he would work on Weyco access if it excludes them.

[BigGoonTuna]

i'd hardly classify some guys yard in the same league as industrial timberland that's owned by a publicly traded corporation.  i say give them incentive to open their land to the public(penalize them for not doing so).  it's not out of the ordinary for the government to do, and in this democrat run state that knife can cut both ways.

i live about a mile from the vail tree farm, walk in access is a hell of a lot better than trying to beat a thousand guys to buy a $300 permit that sells out in 10 minutes, aka no access at all.

[winshooter88]

The whole thing is because of vandalism, trash dumping, etc on private lands.
Unfortunately we are are own worst enemy,,,,,,,,,,,,, the bad apples.
If it was like an access fee which also allowed camping and done per family it would be ok with me at this point.
everything I used to hunt is gated anyway, the part I hate is leaving my vehicle where it also can be messed with.

It isn't all because of problems, there are investment firms buying into these timber companies and they want a return on their investment, doesn't matter if that return is from logging or selling access permits.

[bbarnes]

The problem isn't charging access fees,it's the people buying them.Dont buy the passes,and the areas will be over run by wildlife, eating there trees.They will be forced to open areas to hunt,out of crop damage.The problem is everyone is focused on getting there kill,not the real problem.Also these timber company's have blocked and gated,state funded main line roads.Theres been about four of us that have been to our law makers,offices and the timber practice board.It will take a big effort to get this problem reversed by sportsman.This is more than archery or muzzle loaders, getting locked out.All user groups need to work together on this issue.i can also tell you the state is considering,giving management of our state lands, to the very timber company's that our locking you out.