Which bullet?

[CP]

So now that we can use jacketed bullets, which bullet will you be using for deer & elk ?

[BIGBULLBALLS]

Barnes solid copper expander mz.  My gun loves those things

[Machias]

Powerbelts

[rasbo]

powerbelts for deer,140 grain accubond for elk.150 grain corlokt .308 for bear

[Moose Eyes]

I'll just stick with a pure lead conical custom made by the Bullshop (http://bullshop.gunloads.com/) or No Excuses (http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/).  At least until they ban lead! 

[MagKarl]

0.530" patched round ball.

[colockumelk]

250 grain Hornady SST-ML

[Open-sights]

so, we can use jacketed bullets in muzzleloaders now?  When did that change?  If that is the case, i can bear hunt with my .50 cal and use a copper jacketed bullet for penetration and weight retention? 

[Curly]

so, we can use jacketed bullets in muzzleloaders now?  When did that change?  If that is the case, i can bear hunt with my .50 cal and use a copper jacketed bullet for penetration and weight retention? 

It is in the proposed changes.  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,18662.0.html

During a modern firearm season, you will likely be able to use a ML with scope, 209 primer, and jacketed bullets.

(5) Muzzleloading firearms used during a modern firearm season are not required to meet ignition, sight, or double barrel restrictions.

[stumprat]

The proposals have to be adopted first.

[bobcat]

I would like to try the jacketed Powerbelts. I didn't care for the lead powerbelts as they are too soft, open up too easily, and tend to foul my barrel excessively. But the copper jacketed Powerbelts may solve that problem and will allow me to push them to a higher velocity because the lead fouling will no longer be an issue. I still have lots of lead bullets to use up before I go out and buy any new ones though.

[Elkstuffer]

In my 50 cal Knight I have always target shot with 45 cal Nosler jacketed pistol bullet with a sabot. I can shoot a 2 inch 3 shot group at 100 yrds.

[bobcat]

That would probably be an ok bullet for deer but I'm not sure about elk. Seems at muzzleloader velocities it might open up too quickly.   

[TopOfTheFoodChain]

I would like to try the jacketed Powerbelts. I didn't care for the lead powerbelts as they are too soft, open up too easily, and tend to foul my barrel excessively. But the copper jacketed Powerbelts may solve that problem and will allow me to push them to a higher velocity because the lead fouling will no longer be an issue. I still have lots of lead bullets to use up before I go out and buy any new ones though.

I have shot two elk with lead powerbelts 295gr, a cow 252 yards and a bull at 80 yards. They do open up large but the elk go down right now.

[Curly]

I have shot two elk with lead powerbelts 295gr, a cow 252 yards and a bull at 80 yards. They do open up large but the elk go down right now.

Please tell me that 252 yards is a typo.....................

[TopOfTheFoodChain]

I have shot two elk with lead powerbelts 295gr, a cow 252 yards and a bull at 80 yards. They do open up large but the elk go down right now.

Please tell me that 252 yards is a typo.....................

Not a typo. I just practice out to 250 yards. Got my mule deer (profile pic) at 209 yards last year. They have plenty of power to do the job as long as you practice a lot and are confident of your aim in the field. 

[colockumelk]

I practise out to 200 yds so it's not a stretch to think that others practise out farther.  My grandpa killed a deer at 300 yds, so it's doable.  Just curious Topofthefoodchain but do you have peep sights?  I do. 

[Open-sights]

Anyone try the Hornady Flex Tips bullets that aren't sabots and they aren't like Powerbelts, they're just a bullet with a concave rear end.  Know what I am talking about?  How do they shoot and kill?  Thanks, Jeff

[bobcat]

I have not, since they were not legal, but just Googled them and came up with an article by Randy Wakeman. They sound very promising. I may have to give them a try.

This is the article:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/hornady_FPB_bullets.htm

[tmike]

TopO,
   I'm intrigued! Would you mind posting your set up? Gun, sights, load? I'd really like to shoot better and my fiber optics take up a whole deer at 150 yards. I also shot 295 PB's but got better groups with 348s since I switched. Thanks.

[dawhunt]

I'd like to know also,I'm shooting a 100 gr, 348 power belt in my Austin Halleck and am going to go to the 295 gr.
Bob

[bobcat]

The 295 is way too light. Terrible choice in my opinion. I don't understand why they even make bullets that light. You should read the article I posted above.

Here it is again:  http://www.chuckhawks.com/hornady_FPB_bullets.htm

[tmike]

I chose the 295 in a permit hunt a few years ago and have had second thoughts about it ever since. I dropped my charge to 90 grains and shoot the 348s now and they seem to fly way more consistant. That's in my Wolverine. I know all guns shoot differently.

Topo must be elk hunting in another state where 209s are legal and jacketed bullets. Maybe a scope also?? Hopefully he'll post his setup so we can find out.

[Curly]

Bobcat, I think TopoftheFoodchain will disagree since he shoots the 295gr bullet and practices at 250 yards.  However, I will say that it does seem awfully light, but his results would say that it works great for him.

[Open-sights]

Wow.  Very informative article.  Makes me second guess my choice of bullet as Powerbelt.  I've had really good knock down and killing power, BUT, I've been using a 405 grain Powerbelt bullet for everything; elk and deer.  Lots of guys bust my chops that 405 grains is ridiculous for deer and that I am not getting a "flat" trajectory.  My response has been, "who cares" because I am shooting at most 100 yards and every deer I've hit goes right down NOW.  However, like the article said, with lighter Powerpelts, like a 245 grain bullet, you may be sacrificing penetration and knock down for velocity, even though that bullet loses it's energy faster.

[bobcat]

405 grain...now we're talkin! Good choice. If I try a Powerbelt it will be the 444 grain Flat Point. I don't like the pure lead Powerbelts but now that jacketed muzzleloader bullets are legal I may try the jacketed version in the 444 grain. I like the sounds of that Hornady in the 350 grain and will probably try that first.

[TopOfTheFoodChain]

I practise out to 200 yds so it's not a stretch to think that others practise out farther.  My grandpa killed a deer at 300 yds, so it's doable.  Just curious Topofthefoodchain but do you have peep sights?  I do. 

I have the Williams rear peep and a Globe style front with inserts. I use a duplex crosshair insert in the globe. I have 14 inches drop at 200 yards and putting the good old steel crosshairs on the deer's back at 200 to 220 yards drops into the kill zone just perfectly. My profile pic is a deer taken just beyond the irrigation ditch on the outskirts of Ellensburg. I actually had to shoot it twice. the first shot was 209 yards slightly quartering towards me and only took out one lung and lodged in the far shoulder. He hunched up, tippy-toed 6 yards and then turned toward me with the same quartering to me shot again! I waited about 5 minutes as all the other deer ran off. He was still standing but head down. I couldn't resist! Shot again but shanked it, hit the neck, but he went right down then. I have taken several small blacktails with the rear peep and fiber optic front bead between 150 to 200 yards.

In 2000 I took a cow at 252 yards with the 295 powerbelts. Had passthrough too. Double lunged her with no ribs in or out, sorry but no pics of that one as I didn't have a camera then   I wouldn't have tried for the elk at that range but it was the last day at 1:00 and I hadn't fired a shot until that day. At the time I didn't practice beyond 200 and didn't know how high to aim. I really just got lucky and found out the bullets would do it IF you could hit them.

I have been shooting the same powder/bullet combo for many years, the powerbelts were called black belts when I started shooting them. I shoot 110 grains FFF RS Select (use 777 now) and the 295 pure lead powerbelt, and RWS musket caps. I have tried many other bullets but always go back to the powerbelts for the simple reason that they are easy to load and group well for me.   

I'll admit the heaver Powerbelts do group better for me too, or if I drop to 100 or 90 grains same result. I just don't get the range unless I shoot the combo I do. I am able to shoot a 3" group at 100 yds and an 8" group at 200 -with a good rest- I'm a lousy freehand shot.

I'll post more pics in my profile when I figure out how to.

[TopOfTheFoodChain]

Anyone try the Hornady Flex Tips bullets that aren't sabots and they aren't like Powerbelts, they're just a bullet with a concave rear end.  Know what I am talking about?  How do they shoot and kill?  Thanks, Jeff

Jeff, They look like a good design and now legal too! Don't know if I'll hunt with them or not but Im' sure I'll shoot at least a box to try them out later this year.

[colockumelk]

TopoftheChain
Currently I also use a williams peep sight for my rear sight but I kept the original front tridium fronts sight that my T/C Black Diamond came with.  I shoot 100 grains of Pyrodex pellets and I shoot a 250 grain Precision QT. (Basically it's a pure lead ballistic tip style bullet with the polymer tip)  I'd shoot more grains of powder but I found that with the smaller bullet like that I got my best groups with just 100 grains.  The high grains for me didn't group nearly as well.  Since I only hunt open country deer I'll keep the fast low trajectory round.  If I also hunted elk I'd probably use the same style of bullet but would bump the weight up by 50 grains or so.  BTW I don't have the exact ballistics on me but I do know that the 250 grain Precision QT has more penetration and more FT LBS of energy than the 295 grain Power Belts. Here's a link to their site.  If you want to get even more accuracy in the long range game I would suggest trying these things.  Although it sounds like you don't really need help in that arena.  Just some food for thought.  Personally I didn't group that well with the PB's.  But my dad loves them.

http://blackpowderbullets.com/precision%20rifle%20muzzleloader%20bullets.html