Hoof rot in the Nooksack herd?

[pianoman9701]

Sorry you misunderstood, then. My response was to all of you connected in the quotes. Longview Fiber uses the same chemicals as WEYCO and Hancock, and the others.

[RadSav]

I am wondering if they have changed the chemicals or the concentration over the past few years.  When I first started seeing spraying in our area 8 or 10 years ago the cuts would be void of vegetation and deer and elk tracts for about three years.  Then the deer would come in first and then elk.  You could find the occasional elk herd that just cut across, but it was clear they would not stop and feed.

Over the past 3 or four years this has changed.  We are now seeing deer and elk in a sprayed cut within a year afterward.  Did the animals adapt?  Or have the chemicals been adjusted?

It is still no comparison to the old days when they would burn the cuts.  Animals thrived back then!  Every cow you saw the next spring seemed to be pregnant and later have twins.  The herds were healthy as heck!  We would even see bear in those cuts within a month of a burn.  I haven't seen a bear in a sprayed cut in over a decade.

[pianoman9701]

The spraying I saw in Ryderwood unit this fall looked pretty extreme. I doubt they're going any lighter on the chemicals but don't know for sure.

[Practical Approach]

As I understand, Hoof disease occurs naturally in elk herds throughout Washington State.  There are many types of hoof diseases.  Almost all of them are not contagious and only flare for short time periods and only affect a few animals.  The one we are all concerned about is the Treponeme version from southwest Washington.  However, there are many Treponeme bacteria that cause hoof issues,  the one we are really concerned about is the specific type that has been identified in southwest Washington.  The reports from the Nooksack identify testing positive for Treponeme, but the samples are still out for further testing to see if it is the same specific bacteria as the one in the southwest.  So,  right now we don't know if the Nooksack has the same thing. 

Elk were trans located from St. Helens in 2003 and 2005.  It seems a far stretch to make assumptions that diseased elk were moved from the southwest to the Nooksack and it took 10-12 years for it to show up. 

[pianoman9701]

As I understand, Hoof disease occurs naturally in elk herds throughout Washington State.  There are many types of hoof diseases.  Almost all of them are not contagious and only flare for short time periods and only affect a few animals.  The one we are all concerned about is the Treponeme version from southwest Washington.  However, there are many Treponeme bacteria that cause hoof issues,  the one we are really concerned about is the specific type that has been identified in southwest Washington.  The reports from the Nooksack identify testing positive for Treponeme, but the samples are still out for further testing to see if it is the same specific bacteria as the one in the southwest.  So,  right now we don't know if the Nooksack has the same thing. 

Elk were trans located from St. Helens in 2003 and 2005.  It seems a far stretch to make assumptions that diseased elk were moved from the southwest to the Nooksack and it took 10-12 years for it to show up.

"...short period of time..." Which is certainly not the case with the WA outbreak of hoof disease, unless you consider 28 years and in some places, over 50% of the herd affected.

[Practical Approach]

Pianoman - I am not trying to pin typical hoof diseases on what is going on in the SW.  It is severe. 

[pianoman9701]

That's what I was trying to clarify.

[Billy Fudd]

In my mind there are two possible causes.....   a super bacteria that has evolved to take out our non native elk, something in the environment that is introduced by humans (herbicides) that weakens the elk immune system.  Maybe a combination of both.  What other explanation is reasonable? Occam's Razor.  If you don't think this will eventually affect all of the west side elk.  Please PM me a logical explanation.  My family has hunted the St. Helens Herd since the 60's and I have seen first hand the dramatic reduction in elk population in the last 15 years.  I am worried and want the chance to kill bull elk until i die.

[HntnFsh]

 Or something taken out of the environment by something introduced into the environment. Like plants and shrubbery that give them essential minerals and nutrients to maintain a healthy immune system.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

a super bacteria that has evolved to take out our non native elk,

It is affecting our native elk, Roosevelt... not the non-native elk (Rocky Mountain)

[Billy Fudd]

Definitely was not clear on native vs non native species.  Pretty sure the St. Helens Herd East of I5 is not considered true Roosevelt.      Dont want to go down that road anyway.  Have heard lots of reports of the rot out in the Willapa area West of I5.  Not sure how prevalent it is though because I do not hunt out there.  Don't think its on the Eastside at this point.  Anybody hear differently?

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Definitely was not clear on native vs non native species.  Pretty sure the St. Helens Herd East of I5 is not considered true Roosevelt

Not meaning to "thread-jack" but elk were native to Washington in all areas currently found, then were forced into isolation by environmental factors (climate change) and other habitat factors, including harvest by indigenous people and evolved into the sub-species.
Rocky Mountain Elk were brought in to help a struggling herd and re-establish elk into areas they had historically held elk.
Because studies have shown that they are genetically the same, and crossbreeding will occur, the "line was drawn" differentiating between the different elk.
Genetics and diet dictate characteristics of the animal, Cascade Roosevelt are more likely to crossbreed, but elk are too magnificent an animal to be called a "bench-leg" 
And just to double thread jack, I was told that the term "Bench-leg" was because one of them would have to stand on a bench to complete the act... used as a way of calling it a mix-breed.

[Billy Fudd]

Ha!  Good info.  Thanks.  Guess my main point is that it seems to me that any elk herd on the Westside would be in danger.  And not that surprising to me that it might start showing up in the Nooksack Herd.  Given genetic similarity and relatively similar environment.

 

[hoof rot]

I highly doubt mother nature did this 

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I highly doubt mother nature did this 

What bothers me is that according to their studies the elk are not born with it.
I would have to look it up to be sure, but I think they said that it begins to affect them around 7-10 months, I suspect warming temperatures and late winter rainstorms washing chemicals into low elevation groundwater,,,