Help a newbie seal the deal

[GrouseBane]

I have a hard time getting dogs to come aall the way in and need some help.  Idealy I would like to have one of you old dogs mentor me one time... let me set up and call and see if you can see or hear what I am doing wrong.  I would be willing to buy breakfast/beer/guide fee, name your price.  I am willing to swear locations to secrecy and not hunt them without you.  It's an honor/grattitude thing. I started hunting coyote fall of '07 but only have one dog (spring '08).  20 or 30 hunts with 60+ sets my ratio stinks.  Here is what I do:
1)hunt where the game is...... where I go I can hear them often and see fresh sign.  There are two separate packs near my un-ocupied farm.  I have permission on private land in grays harbor county that is full of scat as well as the pheasant release sites that always have sign.
2) be able to shoot...old NRA sillouete shooter and 7000 rounds of skeet/sporting clays just last year, I can shoot.
3)sneak in to set up...I walk in slow and quiet sticking to the sides of roads or in swails and wait 15-20 minutes before the first call.
3)use good cover at the stand....I wear a gilli suit, gloves and mask, spray down with pine sent especially boots and legs, wear pine scent cover waffers.  I sit with something behind me like a tree or scotch broom to break up the outline.  when possible I use setting sun/ shadows to my advantage
4)Hunt down wind....I have always gone alone and so I usuall try to position myself to watch down wind or at leat quartered to the wind.
5) learn to call...I bought a tape online from "bills coyote hunting page" and practice in the car and often review while driving to the first set.  I also have electronic callers but do not use a howler (yet).
6) look and listen for responders....I slowly move glasses to my eyes and scan for responders as well as listening to nighbor's dogs/ wild birds.

[MeatGETTER24]

im no expert, im trying to learn to call and master the yotes myself, but to me you sound like you are serious about it, im sure you will have success sooner or later, good luck!

[GrouseBane]

continued......  That is as far as I get, last night I thought I did it all by the book, first set nothing, second set ravens got cranky over something after 6-8 minutes of calling but nothing showed.  Third set at my farm 1/2 hour before dusk the neighbors dogs went off then reasonably quiet (as usual) then far neighbors dogs went haywire followed by 2 minutes of quiet followed by near neighbors dog...(OK, they are coming!) followed by absolutely nothing!  nothing came out.  Then I sat frustrated and cold as the dark became total and gave one last 30 second quiet cal at witch point my timber erupted in yips and howls (are those *censored*s laughing at me?)
Last fall I did call one in but the one and only time I took someone else he missed (denied it but no blood) with his 17hmr at 60 yards.
A month ago at skookumchuck I was calling in late evening and had an unusual reaction from a driver....just to dark to see through the scope, called one last time just because, and a local driving a dirt road above me slammed on his brakes, backed up and spun sideways to watch something in his headlights....no car door so not trying to shoot, nobody who lives in the country reacts that way to coyotes so it was someting cool like a bobcat/fox/cougar I think.  after 90 seconds he drove off slow.  was a long call set( 25 minutes) near an old deer carcass.
I have had them come in and yip at me but only one taken and I am embarrassed to tell that tale, but it Was in an area that I hunt rabbits, field dress and come back the next day to hunt and find scat.  I set up inn the full moon and called on and off for 3 hours, getting howls yips right at first then nothing so I would sit and watch my kill lanes for 40 minutes and call for 15.  After 3 hours of this I was tired and despondant so I lay my head down to rest and 15 minutes later rose my head to see one trotting down to me.  a couple mouth kisses and he came right in to the 22-250.

[heavy hauler]

i am no expert, but it sounds like you are doing everything right.i know that spot in skookumchuck used to have a ton of yotes.i saw where they killed a bunch of the pheasants. they might be a little call shy there.

[tlbradford]

I am going to go way out on a limb and venture a couple of guesses on what may be going wrong with your set-ups.

First off, your procedure as outlined is great.  Keep doing that.  Picking the spots that you sit in and the direction you call is crucial, and many times trial and error, but based on a knowledge on what as worked before.  Since you have hunted this area a lot, you should have a pretty good idea on where the coyotes are likely to be when you start calling.  Sit back and think, "if i was a coyote i would be comfortable using this approach to a sound."  Then set-up where you can see that area.  If you are setting up too close to a structure, the road, or expecting to try to call a coyote across a wide open field then you may want to try to adjust your stand location.  In your farm scenario, you were successful calling them to the timberline, then the coyotes were uncomfortable exposing themselves.  Try to get to a spot where you can see 20 or 30 yards into the timberline so you may have a chance at a shot if they do that again.

Another thing I would do is to wait on using the binocsuntil you are ready to end the stand.  It isn't that you are glassing in a poor manner, it is you are taking away your field of view and the ability to spot movement easily.  Coyotes blend in, and most of the time you will spot movement, rather than color or body parts.  Keeping the glasses in your lap will help you see a much larger area.

The last thing I would try is to call less.  Go ahead and blow quietly for 10-15 seconds and sit tight for 2-3 minutes.  Blowing a call for 15 minutes straight is a long time for a coyote to get zeroed in on your position.  They have a pretty good idea of where that sound is coming from within a 10 or 15 yard radius upon hearing that first series.  What you described about the coyote coming in when you are resting is very common.  They will often investigate the source of a sound anywere from 30 minutes to 24 hours upon hearing that sound stop.

Like I said, I may be way of base, but those are some things I would try based on your explanation of how it has been going down.

[GrouseBane]

Thanks for the input tlbradford.  I would have thought they would be comfortable coming across the field but I think you might be right about that one.  What about a permanent tree stand in the timber?  I have one sitting in the box since '07. I guess a red light or nightvison would make my hunting hours longer as well.
     If I implied I was calling for 15 minutes straight, I misspoke.  How I call is I do 30 seconds of kissy squeak (or electronic mouse low volume), then pause 90 then call soft (quite possibly to loud) for 30 to 45 seconds then 2 minutes quiet, medium loud for 30 seconds, then pause 2 minutes, medium for 30 seconds, then 2 minutes quiet, then a louder 20 seconds jazzed up a bit and ending on a sharp dying scream.  5 minutes quiet and then two quiet 30 second calls separated by 2 minute of silence.  That deal takes about 15 minutes. Sometimes I end with a few 30 second electronic woodpecker distress always broken by 2 minutes quiet, taking the sequence out to 20-25 minutes.
The 80 acre "farm" I own is out in mason county with the back 40 acres of 40-50 foot Doug fir and the front 40 in hay cut diagonally with a year round creek. It has a barn up front on a not very busy road It butts up on the back to forest land.  Crazy neighbor watches it like a hawk for me since I live in Olympia.  I almost got shot by her last year when I took a mallard drake from the creek and did not instantly answer her yelling my name.  Looked at her on the porch through the binos' and she had her 10-22 in hand.  She means well, and I appreciate the eyes on the land.  So now I park at the barn where she can see my rig!!!  I hunt small game and birds only so all I ever see is elk and deer and my deer buddies only see grouse and 'yotes.  I have taken grouse off of it but I want a dog off my land.  The neighbors all have dogs so the deer and elk know my land is safe to hang out on.  Neighbor took a cat last year....new neighbors are live bating with all their free range chickens and turkeys.
You would think with the economy the way it is Bearmanric or Billythekidrock who live in my area would take me up on earning an easy $100 and free breakfast coaching me one time, might even end up with permission to big game hunt mine.   Anyway, appreciate the input tlbradford

[tlbradford]

Grousebane, thanks for the good description of your land.  Hayfields are probably my favorite calling locations.  For that small of an area it will be really easy to condition those coyotes which makes it tough, and with all of the available prey species and that amount of cover, you just aren't going to have that high of a kill percentage anyway.  I would give the tree stand a try, if you have an ecaller with remote, go ahead and drop it in the field on your way to the stand and upwind of you if possible.  If you are using hand calls, they will work from the tree stand.  Since you are making one long stand, I would also wait 5-7 minutes between calling sequences to help avoid getting busted.  If you are just breezing through with a quick hitter then keep up what you are doing.  It really sounds like you are approaching it correctly, but maybe your expectations are too high for your situation/area.

[ivarhusa]

Grousebane,

I am in about the same boat you are, having been at it about a year, with limited success. I live in Richland, so the terrain is much different.  I, too, would welcome some coaching, or opportunities to learn by example.

I respect your willingness to keep secrets about other's favorite spots.  But you/me/we might offer to ask an experienced guy along to hont our spots.  They may not be the best places to find action, but there may be much to learn about "how to hunt them".

I feel like every time I go out, that a coyote could have responded to my calls, but that he got wind of me before I spotted him. I don't have someone planted well downwind to watch for that possibility.  I am thinking about "sitting there myself" by (buying, then) using an e-caller upwind.

I spotted a coyote throwing down (consuming) a ground squirrel today (driving around on company buisness, not hunting).  I was surprised to see the furry food above ground already.  Is that our signal that winter is near its end?  What about that shadow, anyway?

Ivar

[atomicjoe23]

GrouseGane. . .I'm also in your current perdicament. . .

. . .I've spent a lot of time reading the posts here on this forum (and others), I've read every single predator hunting magazine (Predator Xtreme, etc.) that's hit the new stand since I've started as well as any other general hunting mag that has a predator hunting article in it, and I religously watch Predator Quest on Pursuit TV (thank God for DVR. . .my GF can't stand the racket). . .

. . .I've gotten a new rifle, scope, bipod. . .I use full camo (including face and hands), cover sent, and I try to remember to set-up with the wind to my face and the sun to my back. . .I sneak in quiet. . .wait a while before I start calling and then wait a while after my last call as well. . .and I don't have anything to show for it except for a crow. . .but I've called crows in twice now with my mouth calls. . .don't know if that's necessarily good or bad though. . .

Kinda frustrating!!! I just wanna blast a dang yote!!!  I'm hunting the wet side as well and it's definitely a challenge. . .there is so much cover for those dogs to hide in. . .and I've yet to see one leave cover and enter a clearcut yet!!!

Bunch of off-road riders that were riding in a non-ATV/ORV area ruined my set today. . .I wasn't too happy about that!!! I ride ATV's too, but I ride them at the ORV areas and not the areas that areas that are blatantly posted "No ORV Useage". . .oh well. . .I'll just have to keep at it. . .eventually I'm bound to either get lucky or get good. . .I am attending two predator calling seminars in the next two weeks though so maybe that will help some. . .

. . .Good Luck!!!