Quick question about blacktail bucks.

[andr3wxmma]

Today was my first time actually getting in the woods this year and getting to hunt deer, The first spot I tried had a good amount of game trails, poop, and some fresh tracks. I think i jumped a doe and fawn only heard one go and a fawn bleat like 20 seconds after. After sitting until 1030 I decided to wander around and learn the area. I did this until around 2 over all the ground I covered, I did not find any buck sign at all, Not a single hooking old or new. Someone told me blacktails don't do scrapes? so that'd explain the no scrapes part. The clear cut I drove to watch for the end of the day didn't show any buck sign either plenty of tracks beds and poop there too. Should I be worried that there's no bucks in the area, You'd think id see a hooking from when they shedded their velvet. Are blacktails that much different from white tails and don't leave sign of them rutting or did i pick an area where there's only does left.

[fishnfur]

If there are does around, the bucks will be close by or at least checking on them.  The term you're call hooking, I believe is what we call rubs or sometimes horning.  Check small to mid-sized alders near trail, creek, or road crossings and/or small to maybe 5 to 8 inch conifer

[andr3wxmma]

If there are does around, the bucks will be close by or at least checking on them.  The term you're call hooking, I believe is what we call rubs or sometimes horning.  Check small to mid-sized alders near trail, creek, or road crossings and/or small to maybe 5 to 8 inch conifer

Yeah sorry for the east coast terminology. Yeah i'm familiar with where whitetail hookings rubs normally are in relation to their habitat, just could not find any in this area. I've never seen an area with so much deer sign without buck sign all over the trails. I may just try somewhere else tomorrow, sucks going in blind but this year has been weird.

[fishnfur]

If you find does, especially if they don't have fawns with them, just sit tight and watch.  You're in the right spot (but it is post-rut, so there's no guarantee a buck will be by anytime soon)  Sounds like a lot of people are doing well on the edges of clearcuts/reprod in the last few days.   Good luck.

[blackveltbowhunter]

Fishnfur is spot on If your hunting does, bucks will show. I do prefer to hunt where I see good rubs, (hooking or horning, its all the same to me. Just dont say scrapes, i have heard several folks refer to rubs as scrapes, totally different use of words to me ). however having good fresh rubs does help with the confidence as I feel like rubs are often made closer to a bucks core area. If your hunting just rifle, i would stick with the aea you know deer are, if  you are looking for later seasons I personally would put a little more effort to finding rubs.

With regards to rubs my experience is that although a big buck will often tackle small trees, the opposite is not often true. This goes double if the tree is a "Unbendable" conifer, big cedar rubs IMO are made by the most dominant bucks in a given area.

[andr3wxmma]

Fishnfur is spot on If your hunting does, bucks will show. I do prefer to hunt where I see good rubs, (hooking or horning, its all the same to me. Just dont say scrapes, i have heard several folks refer to rubs as scrapes, totally different use of words to me ). however having good fresh rubs does help with the confidence as I feel like rubs are often made closer to a bucks core area. If your hunting just rifle, i would stick with the aea you know deer are, if  you are looking for later seasons I personally would put a little more effort to finding rubs.

With regards to rubs my experience is that although a big buck will often tackle small trees, the opposite is not often true. This goes double if the tree is a "Unbendable" conifer, big cedar rubs IMO are made by the most dominant bucks in a given area.

Yeah scrapes to me are when a buck clears the ground and leaves his scent there, then a ready doe will hang by it once she finds it. Thanks for the advice I'm stuck with just modern. I should've got a muzzle or archery tag but I didn't expect to be out of the country aug - early nov, I guess I'll decide on my way in tomorrow what feels right.

[scrapperdude]

you probably picked an area that only has female deer

[andr3wxmma]

you probably picked an area that only has female deer

I was thinking that maybe the bucks got killed in the earlier seasons or were ran out of the area. I ended up going to a spot about a mile away my buddy hunted 3 or 4 years ago and suggested I try it. I found a ton of rubbings and sat on them all day. I saw two doe in the morning and had a fawn(maybe 60lbs tops) with about 2 inch spikes stand broadside at 30 yards for what seemed like an eternity. I let him walk (I've never passed up a legal buck late in the season before). I think my plan to mount my first blacktail and hopes the buck making all that sign would show up persuaded me.

[fishnfur]

Well I call that a successful first BT season.  You've got a spot for next year where you know the bucks hang out.  Sit near those rublines and you'll likely be in great shape.   Hope you get a chance to hunt the entire season. 

[scrapperdude]

Its tough passing up a legal buck but let them spikes go, Good Job

[andr3wxmma]

Its tough passing up a legal buck but let them spikes go, Good Job

Yeah hopefully he'll do the same thing in a few years for me 

[fishnfur]

As an afterthought on your trouble finding buck sign, my initial thoughts were that there are just fewer deer than you have experienced in other areas, but I did not have the data to discuss it.  The entire Blacktail population in Western WA is estimated to be 90-110,000 animals, of which only roughly 20% are bucks - call it 20,000 bucks for the entire west side of WA.

http://www.wafwa.org/Documents%20and%20Settings/37/Site%20Documents/Working%20Groups/Mule%20Deer/Range-Wide%20Status/2015_Black-tailed%20and%20Mule%20Deer%20Status%20Update.pdf

 That small humber of bucks likely spreads out each individual buck's territorial rubs and other sign, and results in small areas of activity in any given larger area, making it occasionally difficult to locate rubs.   I'm not sure where you hunted before, but I've got a feeling the deer populations were quite a bit larger, which ultimately increases the amount of buck sign in the woods.   Once you get familiar with typical areas that BTs rub, it becomes less of a chore to locate rubs. 

[andr3wxmma]

As an afterthought on your trouble finding buck sign, my initial thoughts were that there are just fewer deer than you have experienced in other areas, but I did not have the data to discuss it.  The entire Blacktail population in Western WA is estimated to be 90-110,000 animals, of which only roughly 20% are bucks - call it 20,000 bucks for the entire west side of WA.

http://www.wafwa.org/Documents%20and%20Settings/37/Site%20Documents/Working%20Groups/Mule%20Deer/Range-Wide%20Status/2015_Black-tailed%20and%20Mule%20Deer%20Status%20Update.pdf

 That small humber of bucks likely spreads out each individual buck's territorial rubs and other sign, and results in small areas of activity in any given larger area, making it occasionally difficult to locate rubs.   I'm not sure where you hunted before, but I've got a feeling the deer populations were quite a bit larger, which ultimately increases the amount of buck sign in the woods.   Once you get familiar with typical areas that BTs rub, it becomes less of a chore to locate rubs.

Yeah that may play a big part in it. The state I'm coming from didn't have a huge deer popular, but a much better buck to doe ratio which I'm assuming created a lot more competition during breeding time. That articles hunter vs harvest ratio for Washington vs other nearby states is pretty sad.

[DaveMonti]

I grew up hunting whitetail in Pennsylvania.  There are definitely some major differences in hunting blacktail here on the west side vs. whitetails back east.
First off, the deer density is much lower here.  I live in Snohomish County, and there are plenty of pastures, open fields, and some ag fields around.  Back East, I could drive by similar areas and see whitetails in nearly every field.  Here, it's pretty rare to see any deer at all.  Even in the mountains, and when you do see deer, they are in small groups of one or two does and their fawns.  Back East, it was not unusual to see 20 deer or more in one herd at certain times of the year.  You will see bucks out in the open more when they are in velvet and they try to avoid bumping their tender horns on branches. 

The other thing that leads to this lack of deer sighting is that blacktails are more nocturnal than whitetails.  They really tend wait until after dark to move, even without pressure.  I have a few around the house that are conditioned to people, and move around a lot during the day due to the activity in the area, but the are much more active at night based on my trail cams. 

As far as bucks go, blacktail bucks are very solitary.  They live in a small core area and really only get out of that area when they are pressured or during rut. The core areas will contain lots of rubs in a distinct rub line.  The rubs tend to be on smaller trees than a brute whitetail's rubs.  BTs don't scrape, the rubs seem to serve that territory marking function.  Like WTs, they will roam during the day during rut. 

The best way to find them is to scout in the summer when they are in velvet.  You can find old rub lines and see them in the open clear cuts.  They will rub a little when their velvet dies, but they REALLY rub in pre rut and early rut.  What state are you from Andrew?  Where are you now?

[Lefthook]

One of Blacktails key to surviving is how sneaky and tricky they are. I have had bucks let me walk within yards of them. Whenever you are around any does, regardless of sign there could be a buck hanging around. Don't let yourself get to negative about not running into any decent bucks, that's how a lot of Blacktail hunting works out. Just stick with it and hunt hard and scout whenever you can, it will happen.