Toyota tech service bulletin: Dealership problem

[DoubleJ]

We have the 2017 Toyota Highlander.  Those made BEFORE March 2017 (ours) have a transmission computer issue that causes the RPM's to flutter intermittently.  There is a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) issued, I've seen it on official websites and have the TSB number, TSB-0194-17.

Fast forward to today, we made an appointment with the dealership to resolve this issue.  We informed them of the symptoms and told them the TSB number and that the software update would fix it.  They didn't care.  They didn't want to know about the TSB, the fact that it was the latest software issued in MARCH 2017.  They told us the RPM fluttering is because it's a "learning transmission" and it's adjusting to our driving habits, and that we have the latest software update available, OCTOBER 2016 according to them.  They wouldn't even entertain looking up the TSB, let alone installing the new software.

I'm frustrated but unsure what to do next.  I have no problem going to a different dealership if that would get this done.  I was too tired today, after having the truck at the dealership 4 hours already to make a scene.

Anyone, preferably someone associated with Toyota have any ideas?  Thanks

[coachcw]

Great custum er service . I'd get a hold of the service manger.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Hhhhhmmm I think we all need to know where not to go. 

[DoubleJ]

Hhhhhmmm I think we all need to know where not to go. 

Meh, not just yet.  I'd like more input and further ideas before I sell out a dealership that has, until this, treated me like royalty.

[shadowless_nite]

I will tell you from a Toyota dealer stand point as I have worked there and dealt with this.

The service writer doesn't know every single tsb or latest updates. It's usually up to the service technician to diagnose the issue and check for applicable tsb. While the service writer does have access TIS and can see any and all applicable tsb's it doesn't mean they will, like in your case (poor service)

I will also tell you that from a industry stand point coming in saying you diagnosed your problem yourself and its this or that is very frowned upon by both the service writer and technician. Often times we get customers that say it's this or that and they want a specific thing done to fix said "self diagnosed " issue. Then when you repair/replace the customer specified item and it doesn't fix the problem they blame falls back on the dealer. And the customers get even more upset and frustrated to hear it needs to be actually diagnosed and its not what they read on Google or on some forum.   Now this may not always be the case in your situation or in other situations but it's very frequent problem that comes up.

My advice would be to first contact the service manager.  Let them look into it and work with a different service writer that's actually willing to do something for the customer. Even just logging in and looking up open applicable recalls and service bulletins. Sorry this is the service you got. If I still had access to TIS I'd be able to help you out more.

[DoubleJ]

I will tell you from a Toyota dealer stand point as I have worked there and dealt with this.

The service writer doesn't know every single tsb or latest updates. It's usually up to the service technician to diagnose the issue and check for applicable tsb. While the service writer does have access TIS and can see any and all applicable tsb's it doesn't mean they will, like in your case (poor service)

I will also tell you that from a industry stand point coming in saying you diagnosed your problem yourself and its this or that is very frowned upon by both the service writer and technician. Often times we get customers that say it's this or that and they want a specific thing done to fix said "self diagnosed " issue. Then when you repair/replace the customer specified item and it doesn't fix the problem they blame falls back on the dealer. And the customers get even more upset and frustrated to hear it needs to be actually diagnosed and its not what they read on Google or on some forum.   Now this may not always be the case in your situation or in other situations but it's very frequent problem that comes up.

My advice would be to first contact the service manager.  Let them look into it and work with a different service writer that's actually willing to do something for the customer. Even just logging in and looking up open applicable recalls and service bulletins. Sorry this is the service you got. If I still had access to TIS I'd be able to help you out more.

Service manager emailed today.  Waiting to hear

I have TIS here at home.  Can I upload the TSB software update myself?

I'm not frustrated because I self diagnosed the problem and I'm just fine with them diagnosing it themselves but, when they are told I have a TSB that they can look at that might fix the problem because exactly what we're describing is fixed by the TSB, and it's blown off and we're told that we have the latest software (Clearly not true) and that it's part of a "learning transmission" and to just ignore it, I'm kinda upset about that.  They never even entertained the idea

[Buckmark]

 

[Buckmark]

 

[shadowless_nite]

So even with that tsb in hand printed out and taken to them. The correct procedures would need to be taken. Service writer would have to write it up, technician would have to verify that it is covered by the tsb according to vin range AND if it does, then he would have to verify the complaint. Rememer this is a tsb and not a recall so there is not necessarily just a replace parts and go. Complaint must be in accordance with the technicians diagnosis and tsb qualification guide lines. There is not a mandatory need to replace things without proper diagnosis. This covers both the customers ass and the dealership. Otherwise their would be a huge amount  of warranty audits for claims on every little thing. And following the correct tsb service actions helps a customer in the event that this turns into a lemon or something of that scenario

[h20hunter]

 

[DoubleJ]

So even with that tsb in hand printed out and taken to them. The correct procedures would need to be taken. Service writer would have to write it up, technician would have to verify that it is covered by the tsb according to vin range AND if it does, then he would have to verify the complaint. Rememer this is a tsb and not a recall so there is not necessarily just a replace parts and go. Complaint must be in accordance with the technicians diagnosis and tsb qualification guide lines. There is not a mandatory need to replace things without proper diagnosis. This covers both the customers ass and the dealership. Otherwise their would be a huge amount  of warranty audits for claims on every little thing. And following the correct tsb service actions helps a customer in the event that this turns into a lemon or something of that scenario

So what is my next course of action?

BTW, Thanks Buckmark

[jackelope]

So even with that tsb in hand printed out and taken to them. The correct procedures would need to be taken. Service writer would have to write it up, technician would have to verify that it is covered by the tsb according to vin range AND if it does, then he would have to verify the complaint. Rememer this is a tsb and not a recall so there is not necessarily just a replace parts and go. Complaint must be in accordance with the technicians diagnosis and tsb qualification guide lines. There is not a mandatory need to replace things without proper diagnosis. This covers both the customers ass and the dealership. Otherwise their would be a huge amount  of warranty audits for claims on every little thing. And following the correct tsb service actions helps a customer in the event that this turns into a lemon or something of that scenario

So what is my next course of action?

BTW, Thanks Buckmark

Don't make a scene first of all.

Did your car go into the shop at all?
Ask to road test with the technician so you can display your concern. If you have a problem and the  technician can verify it, they'll attempt a repair. If you road test it, display your concern and they tell you it's normal, ask them to drive you in another like vehicle. If it does the same thing as yours, take your car and go home. If it's a normal characteristic of the vehicle, you own it. Adaptive "learning" transmissions are a thing.
Unless you know for sure your vehicle doesn't have the latest software, why would you want them to update software to the same software that's already in it?
I will say from a service advisor/service manager/technician/service department point of view...if a problem cannot be verified, a repair should not be attempted. All those repair attempts end up adding to the attempted repairs when it comes to lemon law. The other thing to keep in mind is that dealers get paid by the manufacturer to do warranty work. They make  a significant amount of money fixing stuff. Doesn't matter if the customer is paying or the  manufacturer is paying. It's a lot of money. There would be absolutely no reason for them to not fix your car unless of course there was nothing wrong with it.
Lastly, and don't take this the wrong way, but the last kind of customer I want standing in front of me is the guy who prints out all the TSB's, thinks he knows everything and shows up demanding we do them all. If there's a concern with your car, show them. Display it to them and let them fix it. They're professionals. Let them do their jobs. Don't try cramming TSB's down their throat then get pissed off when they tell you they won't do them. I'd do the same thing if I couldn't reproduce a concern with your vehicle.

[Miles]

I've had a dealership flat out refuse to look at an item which had a TSB out on it.  They refused to even look/listen to it in the parking lot. They said unless I was willing to pay upfront for the troubleshooting and leave the truck with them, they couldn't help me.   This was on a Chevrolet Silverado and the heater fan had stuck on (running on high speed even when the ignition was off).  I had to pull the fuse so the battery wouldn't die.

It was a pretty straight forward item...  I ended up just buying the $100 module and fixing it myself rather then taking it up the A from a dealer.   

[jackelope]

I've had a dealership flat out refuse to look at an item which had a TSB out on it.  They refused to even look/listen to it in the parking lot. They said unless I was willing to pay upfront for the troubleshooting and leave the truck with them, they couldn't help me.   This was on a Chevrolet Silverado and the fan had stuck on (running on high speed even when the ignition was off).  I had to pull the fuse so the battery wouldn't die.

It was a pretty straight forward item...  I ended up just buying the $100 module and fixing it myself rather then taking it up the A from a dealer.   

Would you have been ok paying for that repair had it not fixed the problem? I'm assuming we all know TSB's don't mean the repairs are covered by some sort of warranty.
(Side note...your answer may not typify the mentality of lots of vehicle owners....so take that question for what it's worth.)
In this situation, I'm more than happy to make those repairs on your dime, but it will be made extremely clear up front that you own the repair whether it fixes the problem or not. If we diagnose the problem, we guarantee the repair.

[Woodchuck]

I've had a dealership flat out refuse to look at an item which had a TSB out on it.  They refused to even look/listen to it in the parking lot. They said unless I was willing to pay upfront for the troubleshooting and leave the truck with them, they couldn't help me.   This was on a Chevrolet Silverado and the fan had stuck on (running on high speed even when the ignition was off).  I had to pull the fuse so the battery wouldn't die.

It was a pretty straight forward item...  I ended up just buying the $100 module and fixing it myself rather then taking it up the A from a dealer.   

Would you have been ok paying for that repair had it not fixed the problem? I'm assuming we all know TSB's don't mean the repairs are covered by some sort of warranty.
(Side note...your answer may not typify the mentality of lots of vehicle owners....so take that question for what it's worth.)
In this situation, I'm more than happy to make those repairs on your dime, but it will be made extremely clear up front that you own the repair whether it fixes the problem or not. If we diagnose the problem, we guarantee the repair.