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Author Topic: National reciprocity  (Read 842 times)

Offline KFhunter

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National reciprocity
« on: November 29, 2017, 09:22:01 PM »
National reciprocity for concealed carry passed the House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday is expected to receive a floor vote before the end of the year.
The Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 was introduced by Rep. Richard Hudson (R-NC) on January 3, 2017. It changes federal law that so concealed carry permits are treated like driver’s licenses, making a permit from one state valid in the other 49. This would fix the complicated and often confusing patchwork of concealed carry laws currently in effect throughout the country.

To put it simply, Hudson’s bill allows the common man to defend himself and his family as he travels throughout this country.

On November 28 Breitbart News reported that Hudson’s legislation was scheduled for a markup in the House Judiciary Committee and the markup would serve as the last stop before a floor vote.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/29/national-reciprocity-concealed-carry-passes-next-stop-house-floor/
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Offline Cab

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 04:02:07 PM »
This is a great bill but would this also apply to places like Portland that have their own rules/laws about CCW? would love this to pass!

Offline optic2

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 04:18:40 PM »
This is a great bill but would this also apply to places like Portland that have their own rules/laws about CCW? would love this to pass!

It would basically work the same as if you had an Oregon CCW. So if Oregon state law says Portland can make it's own rules, then you would have to follow them. Luckily here in WA only the state can make firearms laws.

Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 05:18:51 PM »
My son lives in Salem Oregon and told me he was going to apply for a Washington State CWP. I told him he couldn't do that, since he lives in another state. Sure as you know what, you can. Oregon doesn't recognize Washington State CWP's, something is wrong..
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 06:01:46 PM »
My son lives in Salem Oregon and told me he was going to apply for a Washington State CWP. I told him he couldn't do that, since he lives in another state. Sure as you know what, you can. Oregon doesn't recognize Washington State CWP's, something is wrong..

Tell him to get Utah CWP


OR doesn't recognize UT
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2017, 06:35:54 AM »
This is a great bill but would this also apply to places like Portland that have their own rules/laws about CCW? would love this to pass!

Portland doesn't have specific regulations regarding CCW. Your OR CCW is the only regulation. However, I do believe that some cities do have ordinances, like Chicago (where they've worked so well in reducing gun violence), D.C. (another shining example of how well gun control affects crime), and NYC. If the reciprocity were passed by Congress (and it likely never will), You would be good to carry everywhere concealed. However, that doesn't mean you wouldn't have to follow magazine capacity or other restrictions from state-to-state.
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Offline Cab

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 12:28:50 PM »
This is a great bill but would this also apply to places like Portland that have their own rules/laws about CCW? would love this to pass!

Portland doesn't have specific regulations regarding CCW. Your OR CCW is the only regulation. However, I do believe that some cities do have ordinances, like Chicago (where they've worked so well in reducing gun violence), D.C. (another shining example of how well gun control affects crime), and NYC. If the reciprocity were passed by Congress (and it likely never will), You would be good to carry everywhere concealed. However, that doesn't mean you wouldn't have to follow magazine capacity or other restrictions from state-to-state.

I think we need to talk more about this over a drink pianoman  :tup:

Offline Stein

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 12:59:28 PM »
Would it apply to places like NYC where they officially have permits but they aren't available to the average guy?

I have three right now and managing renewals is not the easiest job.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 01:00:59 PM »
This is a great bill but would this also apply to places like Portland that have their own rules/laws about CCW? would love this to pass!

Portland doesn't have specific regulations regarding CCW. Your OR CCW is the only regulation. However, I do believe that some cities do have ordinances, like Chicago (where they've worked so well in reducing gun violence), D.C. (another shining example of how well gun control affects crime), and NYC. If the reciprocity were passed by Congress (and it likely never will), You would be good to carry everywhere concealed. However, that doesn't mean you wouldn't have to follow magazine capacity or other restrictions from state-to-state.

I think we need to talk more about this over a drink pianoman  :tup:

We have many things to discuss. It may take many drinks.
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Offline csaaphill

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2017, 12:13:52 AM »
This would of been good if it would pass. after Las Vegas and Texas most lately it wont more likely.
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Offline Special T

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Offline Special T

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 03:15:37 PM »
In a Facebook post, Massie says the “Fix-NICS” bill would allow “agencies, not just courts, to adjudicate your second amendment rights.”

Massie, the Chairman of the Second Amendment Caucus, says the bill will advance former President Obama’s gun control agenda, adding that the Senate’s bill will send $625 million over five years to states to expand the national background check database. Massie says the House bill will also commission a study on bump stocks.

“[“Fix-NICS”] encourages administrative agencies, not the courts, to submit more names to a national database that will determine whether you can or can’t obtain a firearm,” Massie wrote. “When President Obama couldn’t get Congress to pass gun control, he implemented a strategy of compelling, through administrative rules, the Veterans Administration and the Social Security Administration to submit lists of veterans and seniors, many of whom never had a day in court, to be included in the NICS database of people prohibited from owning a firearm.”

Massie continued, “Only a state court, a federal (article III) court, or a military court, should ever be able to suspend your rights for any significant period of time.”

Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer are cosponsors of the Senate bill.

Massie says the bills should be voted on separately if the House does not change the flawed Fix-NICS bill.

“If our House leadership insists on bringing the flawed Fix-NICS bill to the floor, they shouldn’t play games,” he said. “We should vote separately on HR 38, the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill, and HR 4477, the Fix-NICS bill. And we should be given enough time to amend the Fix-NICS bill, because it needs to be fixed, if not axed.”

The National Rifle Association (NRA), who has endorsed both bills, has criticized Massie for “spreading misinformation” and called his claims “incorrect.” The NRA insists the H.R. 4477 has been through a “very thorough and public markup session of its own” and argues that each bill has enough votes to pass on its own.

But other gun rights groups disagree.



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Offline Special T

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 03:18:19 PM »
I have some pretty mixed feeling on these bills. I think the feds have too much power as it is, but would like to see people able to carry across state lines easier.

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Offline KFhunter

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 04:41:59 PM »
I wonder how that would work if administrative judges were nixed?
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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 05:39:11 PM »
HR 38 was passed by the house today.

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Offline csaaphill

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2017, 08:11:48 PM »
here's the newest I have on these.
Yesterday, the House Rules Committee voted to combine the reciprocity and anti-gun "Fix NICS" bills (H.R. 38 and H.R. 4477).

The combined bill now goes to the House floor, with votes scheduled for today.


Because of the united push from gun control groups, the NRA and many House Republicans, the "Fix NICS" portion has an OVERWHELMING majority in the House.

Not only that, a stand-alone "Fix NICS" bill has an OVERWHELMING majority in the Senate. This is further evidenced by the fact that Republican Senate leaders Mitch McConnell and John Cornyn -- along with Democrat leaders Chuck Schumer and Chris Murphy -- are all cosponsors and strongly supporting Fix NICS (S. 2135).

So the result of passing the NICS bill apart from reciprocity would be for gun control to be fast-tracked to President Trump's desk, while reciprocity died under a Schumer-led filibuster.

Interestingly, Senators Cornyn and Murphy did NOT want a combined bill because they want to send Fix NICS legislation to the President.

Senator John Cornyn was quoted in the Daily Caller as saying:

We have good bipartisan support for [Fix NICS]. It's really important and it will save lives, but if we start trying to add other things to it [like concealed carry reciprocity], then I think we risk not doing anything which has sort of been the fate of a lot of the legislation we've tried in the past. So, I'd like to do the fix NICS and then we can move on from there.

Anti-gunners Oppose Combining the Two Bills

Senator Cornyn was not alone in wanting to keep the bills separate.

Democrat Senator Chris Murphy (CT) said that this combined bill would be D.O.A. in the Senate, as he considers concealed carry reciprocity a poison pill.  And he was quoted in The Washington Post as saying that the combining of the two measures "is to risk nothing happening."

Prominent anti-gunners in the House also oppose combining the two bills.

When appearing before the House Rules Committee yesterday, Democrat Representatives Jerry Nadler (NY) and Sheila Jackson Lee (TX) argued against combining reciprocity and Fix NICS.

Also appearing before the committee, Rep. Dina Titus (D-NV) complained that including concealed carry reciprocity in the bill was a "poison pill" that would kill the Fix NICS legislation.  She announced that she wanted to offer an amendment to strike the concealed carry reciprocity language -- a request which was denied by the committee.

Outside of Congress, Moms Demand Action does NOT want a combined bill because they want a Fix NICS bill without reciprocity.  You can see their tweet here.

Same with Bloomberg's Everytown, which opposes combining the two bills.

What all these anti-gun legislators and groups realize is that merging the two bills would be the best way to kill the Fix NICS legislation.

Unfortunately, because of a few Red State Democrats, we don't have the votes right now to overcome a Schumer filibuster of the reciprocity bill in the Senate.

And that means that the most likely outcome of two separate bills moving through the House would be for the NICS bill to ultimately get signed into law while reciprocity dies.

Now that the House Rules Committee has combined the two provisions, GOA is not advocating for the bill, because we don't want to pass a bill to make an unconstitutional system deny additional law-abiding citizens from exercising their rights.

(You can view our earlier alert here to see why the Fix NICS bill could better be termed a "Traffic Ticket Gun Ban.")

Having said this, gun owners should realize the silver lining that has emerged.  The combined bill has tremendously frustrated the anti-gun Left, because now they fear the NICS bill is dead -- if the House passes the bill today.

What Happens Now?

So, the two provisions (both good and bad) have now been joined together in H.R. 38.  The House is scheduled to vote on the combined bill today. 

Gun owners will assuredly want to know: What happens next? 

Well, if the House does pass Fix NICS with reciprocity, then the Senate will most likely kill the background check language because, as we stated above, leading Republicans and Democrats do NOT want the bills combined.

As recently as yesterday, Senator Chris Murphy said that such a combined bill would be dead on arrival in the Senate.

Of course, the Senate could attempt to strip the reciprocity portion of the bill and send only gun control back to the House.  But having just passed reciprocity, the tables would be turned and a vote to pass Fix NICS as a stand-alone bill in the House at that point would be considered a vote to kill reciprocity -- putting our side in a much stronger position to vote it down.

What happens if the House defeats the combined bill?  If Senator Cornyn has his way, the Senate will quickly try to send a Fix NICS-only bill to the House. 

Will the Senate Move Quickly to Pass Fix NICS?

When asked by The Daily Caller if Sen. Cornyn preferred to wait until the next Congress to pass concealed carry reciprocity, Cornyn replied,

Well I want to get this background check problem fixed as soon as possible, hopefully even this week here in the Senate. And I don't want to do anything [such as reciprocity] to bog down our ability to get that done. I do think at some point we should take up constitutional carry, because I think it's important but combining them, I think, is to risk nothing happening.

If the Senate were to pass a stand-alone NICS bill, the House would most likely agree to it and send the legislation to President Trump.

So if the House defeats the bill today, we will have to expend a herculean effort in trying to kill the Traffic Ticket Gun Ban.

And we will be calling on all our members to bombard their legislators in opposition to a bill that (sadly) has tremendous support in Congress.

Things are happening quickly. 

Please stay tuned for more details as they become available.

In Liberty,

Erich Pratt
Executive Director
text of fix the Nics
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr4477/text
a Link to GOA and story on fix the nics garbage.
https://gunowners.org/alert12012017.htm

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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2017, 12:48:37 PM »
The CBO says it will cost $615 million from 2018-2022 if fix nics is implemented.
My take on this issue is the states authority being taken away by Republicans no less.
I think the entire bill should be thrown out for cost and for states rights issues.  :twocents: Anyone have anything that i should think more about on this issue?
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Offline lamrith

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2017, 02:53:01 PM »
This is not a response to your post Oh Mah...  Just a general post for everyone to consider.

There is SO much miss-information going around on this bill.  It is coming fro all sides and Much of it is flat out WRONG.  I am honestly extremely disappointed in a number of high profile pro-gun personalities as well as both the NRA and GOA in regards to how they are feeding the hysteria at this point.  They have really been doing little other than fear mongering.

I have seen one rep for the above says Dems hate this combined bill, then 3 minutes later received an email from that same organization saying those same Dems are pushing to ramrod the bill thru because it is antigun, and at the same time crucifying the other progun lobby for supporting it.  It is an absolute and utter joke, and when people ask questions wanting someone to show them where in the bill it says what this lobby claims it does, they get ridiculed...

PLEASE, Do not take anyone's word (including mine) on what the bill says or does.  Anyone interested or concerned about the bill I cannot stress enough that you need to go read the actual text of the bill yourself.  Most/of it is boring legalese and notes on where this or that new phrase needs to be added to existing law.  That said by reading it you will see and know what is in it and be able to make an informed decision on how you feel about the law and what you wish to push your elected officials to do about it.
Full text of the bill as passed by the house: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/38/text


IMHO - after reading it, I see nothing in it that says anything about, or goes anywhere near giving anyone or any agency, expanded powers or ability to add people to the prohibited list.  Nothing in it gives any credibility to a Dr or anyone being able to add someone to the list without due process, or becoming prohibited for traffic tickets.  In fact it specifically mentions requiring conviction of a crime "punishable by one year in prison" and additionally mentions specifically about reporting records of Felony and DV convictions.  The great majority of the "Fix Nics" revolves around additional language to hold agencies that already report to NICS more accountable for their reporting.  It outlines funds and penalties for agencies that meet or fail to meet expectations.  This to me is a direct reaction to the failure by the AF to have the Texas shooter listed as prohibited.  To me this seems like a no brainer, we all know NICS is a nightmare, many would love to see it gone, but it is entrenched and not going anywhere, might as well try to make it work better.

Another facet of it is the bump stock issue.  I have seen people claim it will ban bumpstocks.  What it actually says is that it requires research of if/how bumpstocks are used in crimes.  Now that may end up with results that lead to banning them, but I doubt they are being used in enough crimes to warrant banning for that reason alone.

For all that we get conceal carry reciprocity...

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: National reciprocity
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2017, 03:09:33 PM »
Thanks.  :yeah:

I read the entire bill,You are right a lot of lies going around.

1)still taking power from the states is still in it.

2)Still going to cost a lot of money to either tax payers or sportsmen.

 These parts alone were enough to turn me away from it.
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It is to easy for a law abiding citizen to on their own get a permit in the states they wish on their own,Or the states can decide more fairly on what states permits they will accept.Since they don't accept all on their own it only says that they are going to lose the right as a state to decide on their own.
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