Eastside Mule Deer Survival Study Update

[PlateauNDN]

Per our laws we can't hound hunt. There's members, such as myself that would love to bring it back. It was changed but not due to the State years ago.

[ctwiggs1]

That's the just the Yakima tribe correct? 

[trophyhunt]

Here is a good article on mule deer and why we are fortunate to have information from the tribal bio's, whom tell the truth about what is happening with ungulate predation in Washington. The only reason we have elk in the Tacoma Watershed unit again is because of their studies about predation and control.

Page 4..

http://www.muckleshoot.nsn.us/media/45234/march%202018%20r.pdf

Give me a F'n break, every time I hear someone say the muckleshoots should be commended for the elk in the watershed makes me want to puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You don't know the past apparently, back when that tag used to be the best tag in the state??  What happened to that elk herd in a matter  of just a couple years? Hmmm, the mucks went in there and wiped them out!!  No more elk, no more permits for us.  Then the mucks start a program to study and transfer elk back into the area and now they are hero's, nobody is that stupid to pat them on the back for that.  Gee thanks for the elk mucks, whatever!  Now on my soft side, I'm glad they saw the error of their ways and turned it around. It is now a great unit for elk, we even have permits for cows.  At least till they decide to go wacko again and slaughter them all, damn, my hard side came out again.  Sorry.

[trophyhunt]

Forget that. The only reason there's elk at all in any of the watersheds near Auburn is because the State took the Mucks to federal court for wiping out everything in there and forcing them to work with the State.

Sorry, but anything from a Muck I'll gladly not read. And Now in the last few years they magically farted out fairy dust and have rights in our territory? Give me a break.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOM   MIC DROP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trophyhunt]

And Bushcraft, I am in no way calling you stupid in my post, it's just an overall opinion.

[ctwiggs1]

I'm no fan of what the Muckleshoot have done, but I am a fan of conservation. 

The reality is that our state is not managing these resources well, and it's going to take a coalition of unlikely allies for us to have a real future of hunting in this state.  I'll gladly be critical for past grievances (and present fisheries grievances), but I'll also gladly accept beneficial help where it's offered.

Between ridiculous liberal policies, introduction of two additional apex predators, urban sprawl, and reduced access due to permit costs, our future is not bright without some help. 

The herds in America will never be what they were before the 19th century.... But they'll continue to get worse if we don't find a way stop the problems.

[Tbar]

Here is a good article on mule deer and why we are fortunate to have information from the tribal bio's, whom tell the truth about what is happening with ungulate predation in Washington. The only reason we have elk in the Tacoma Watershed unit again is because of their studies about predation and control.

Page 4..

http://www.muckleshoot.nsn.us/media/45234/march%202018%20r.pdf

Give me a F'n break, every time I hear someone say the muckleshoots should be commended for the elk in the watershed makes me want to puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You don't know the past apparently, back when that tag used to be the best tag in the state??  What happened to that elk herd in a matter  of just a couple years? Hmmm, the mucks went in there and wiped them out!!  No more elk, no more permits for us.  Then the mucks start a program to study and transfer elk back into the area and now they are hero's, nobody is that stupid to pat them on the back for that.  Gee thanks for the elk mucks, whatever!  Now on my soft side, I'm glad they saw the error of their ways and turned it around. It is now a great unit for elk, we even have permits for cows.  At least till they decide to go wacko again and slaughter them all, damn, my hard side came out again.  Sorry.

So angry! Just plain wrong.......

[trophyhunt]

I'm no fan of what the Muckleshoot have done, but I am a fan of conservation. 

The reality is that our state is not managing these resources well, and it's going to take a coalition of unlikely allies for us to have a real future of hunting in this state.  I'll gladly be critical for past grievances (and present fisheries grievances), but I'll also gladly accept beneficial help where it's offered.

Between ridiculous liberal policies, introduction of two additional apex predators, urban sprawl, and reduced access due to permit costs, our future is not bright without some help. 

The herds in America will never be what they were before the 19th century.... But they'll continue to get worse if we don't find a way stop the problems.

can you imagine how much good would come out of non natives and natives coming together and being on the same side, joining forces?  But you’ll probably see world peace before that happens, unfortunately.

[trophyhunt]

[/quote]Give me a break, every time I hear someone say the muckleshoots should be commended for the elk in the watershed makes me want to puke!  You don't know the past apparently, back when that tag used to be the best tag in the state??  What happened to that elk herd in a matter  of just a couple years? Hmmm, the mucks went in there and wiped them out! No more elk, no more permits for us.  Then the mucks start a program to study and transfer elk back into the area and now they are hero's, nobody should pat them on the back for that.  Gee thanks for the elk mucks, whatever!  Now on my soft side, I'm glad they saw the error of their ways and turned it around. It is now a great unit for elk, we even have permits for cows.  At least till they decide to go wacko again and slaughter them all, damn, my hard side came out again.  Sorry.
[/quote]
  So angry! Just plain wrong.......
[/quote]There, I fixed it for ya.  😁

[ctwiggs1]

I'm no fan of what the Muckleshoot have done, but I am a fan of conservation. 

The reality is that our state is not managing these resources well, and it's going to take a coalition of unlikely allies for us to have a real future of hunting in this state.  I'll gladly be critical for past grievances (and present fisheries grievances), but I'll also gladly accept beneficial help where it's offered.

Between ridiculous liberal policies, introduction of two additional apex predators, urban sprawl, and reduced access due to permit costs, our future is not bright without some help. 

The herds in America will never be what they were before the 19th century.... But they'll continue to get worse if we don't find a way stop the problems.

can you imagine how much good would come out of non natives and natives coming together and being on the same side, joining forces?  But you’ll probably see world peace before that happens, unfortunately.

Keep in mind, the American hunter of yesterday that decimated deer, elk, bear, wolf, bison, goat, sheep, and moose herds is not the American hunter of today.  Hunters are credited for MANY of those species returns (not credited enough in my opinion).

I don't know who this wildlife bio is for MIT, but it sounds like he is putting in some good effort.  I think he should be commended, regardless of his employer's past actions.  And honestly, isn't he finally giving us an official response that we actually agree with?

[trophyhunt]

I'm no fan of what the Muckleshoot have done, but I am a fan of conservation. 

The reality is that our state is not managing these resources well, and it's going to take a coalition of unlikely allies for us to have a real future of hunting in this state.  I'll gladly be critical for past grievances (and present fisheries grievances), but I'll also gladly accept beneficial help where it's offered.

Between ridiculous liberal policies, introduction of two additional apex predators, urban sprawl, and reduced access due to permit costs, our future is not bright without some help. 

The herds in America will never be what they were before the 19th century.... But they'll continue to get worse if we don't find a way stop the problems.

can you imagine how much good would come out of non natives and natives coming together and being on the same side, joining forces?  But you’ll probably see world peace before that happens, unfortunately.

Keep in mind, the American hunter of yesterday that decimated deer, elk, bear, wolf, bison, goat, sheep, and moose herds is not the American hunter of today.  Hunters are credited for MANY of those species returns (not credited enough in my opinion).

I don't know who this wildlife bio is for MIT, but it sounds like he is putting in some good effort.  I think he should be commended, regardless of his employer's past actions.  And honestly, isn't he finally giving us an official response that we actually agree with?

I agree

[ElaphusElatus]

Give me a F'n break, every time I hear someone say the muckleshoots should be commended for the elk in the watershed makes me want to puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You don't know the past apparently, back when that tag used to be the best tag in the state??  What happened to that elk herd in a matter  of just a couple years? Hmmm, the mucks went in there and wiped them out!!  No more elk, no more permits for us.  Then the mucks start a program to study and transfer elk back into the area and now they are hero's, nobody is that stupid to pat them on the back for that.  Gee thanks for the elk mucks, whatever!  Now on my soft side, I'm glad they saw the error of their ways and turned it around. It is now a great unit for elk, we even have permits for cows.  At least till they decide to go wacko again and slaughter them all, damn, my hard side came out again.  Sorry.
[/quote]

Trophy,
Not sure why you keep bashing the Mucks for what happened in the Green River when the data clearly do not support your opinion. The table 6 below from the NREHP https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00773/wdfw00773.pdf is from gate checks, which is accurate data, shows that during the 92-96 period state hunters took 101 antlerless elk while the tribal hunters took 53, and prior to 1992 state hunters were killing a lot of cows. State hunters took more bulls too. Yes, another hunting group will have an effect and the state permits and harvest should have been adjusted downward accordingly if the erd could not support the added harvest.

We all need to get over the past and look to the present condition and future management options. We learn from the past, but don't keep beating a dead horse with inaccuracies.

[ctwiggs1]

I would not consider those numbers accurate or acceptable for any debate.

Any local in the area knows of the tribal poaching issues that were happening in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s and it was BAD.  And there were ZERO consequences for the poachers.  Game Wardens were required to turn them over to the tribe, who did nothing.

The issue trophyhunt brings forward is very legitimate, but it is also mostly historical at this point.

[92xj]

We all need to get over the past

 

[trophyhunt]

I would not consider those numbers accurate or acceptable for any debate.

Any local in the area knows of the tribal poaching issues that were happening in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s and it was BAD.  And there were ZERO consequences for the poachers.  Game Wardens were required to turn them over to the tribe, who did nothing.

The issue trophyhunt brings forward is very legitimate, but it is also mostly historical at this point.

Thank you, couldn’t have said it better.  I have been friends with a 40+ year veteran of the Wdfw fish and game officer, that’s where I get my facts.