Eastside Mule Deer Survival Study Update

[ctwiggs1]

I would not consider those numbers accurate or acceptable for any debate.

Any local in the area knows of the tribal poaching issues that were happening in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s and it was BAD.  And there were ZERO consequences for the poachers.  Game Wardens were required to turn them over to the tribe, who did nothing.

The issue trophyhunt brings forward is very legitimate, but it is also mostly historical at this point.

Thank you, couldn’t have said it better.  I have been friends with a 40+ year veteran of the Wdfw fish and game officer, that’s where I get my facts.

My guess is we have the same friend

[wrchinook]

The herds were all thriving and robust and sustainable before any non natives showed up that's where I get my facts non natives would of slaughtered everything if It wasn't for Roosevelt that's a fact ,we're lucky the muckleshoot are doing some studies I don't see any studies or harvest data from the tribe that don't even have to get tags and are unlimited ?that data will probably help you all to continue to hunt and be enjoying  the outdoors and some guys still bad mouth information you wouldn't have otherwise I don't get it? NOW MY TURN TO DROP THE MIC

[92xj]

The herds were thriving and robust and sustainable before the natives showed up that's where I get my facts natives would have slaughtered everything if non-natives didn't show up.  And before natives were invented the animals lived and died by natural selection

[trophyhunt]

The herds were all thriving and robust and sustainable before any non natives showed up that's where I get my facts non natives would of slaughtered everything if It wasn't for Roosevelt that's a fact ,we're lucky the muckleshoot are doing some studies I don't see any studies or harvest data from the tribe that don't even have to get tags and are unlimited ?that data will probably help you all to continue to hunt and be enjoying  the outdoors and some guys still bad mouth information you wouldn't have otherwise I don't get it? NOW MY TURN TO DROP THE MIC

nope, no mic drop for you.

[ctwiggs1]

The herds were all thriving and robust and sustainable before any non natives showed up that's where I get my facts non natives would of slaughtered everything if It wasn't for Roosevelt that's a fact ,we're lucky the muckleshoot are doing some studies I don't see any studies or harvest data from the tribe that don't even have to get tags and are unlimited ?that data will probably help you all to continue to hunt and be enjoying  the outdoors and some guys still bad mouth information you wouldn't have otherwise I don't get it? NOW MY TURN TO DROP THE MIC

I think if you replace non natives and natives with "humans" you would have a more accurate point.  Humans caused the decline.  Humans initiated conservation efforts. 

[Tbar]

The herds were thriving and robust and sustainable before the natives showed up that's where I get my facts natives would have slaughtered everything if non-natives didn't show up.  And before natives were invented the animals lived and died by natural selection

What facts do you have? 

[Tbar]

The herds were all thriving and robust and sustainable before any non natives showed up that's where I get my facts non natives would of slaughtered everything if It wasn't for Roosevelt that's a fact ,we're lucky the muckleshoot are doing some studies I don't see any studies or harvest data from the tribe that don't even have to get tags and are unlimited ?that data will probably help you all to continue to hunt and be enjoying  the outdoors and some guys still bad mouth information you wouldn't have otherwise I don't get it? NOW MY TURN TO DROP THE MIC

I think if you replace non natives and natives with "humans" you would have a more accurate point.  Humans caused the decline.  Humans initiated conservation efforts.

This is an incorrect statement.  Natives were absolutely the first practitioners of conservation.

[92xj]

The herds were thriving and robust and sustainable before the natives showed up that's where I get my facts natives would have slaughtered everything if non-natives didn't show up.  And before natives were invented the animals lived and died by natural selection

What facts do you have? 

Prove me wrong.
Let's hear the facts of pre natives, pre non natives. Personal experience by any chance?
 

[Tbar]

I would not consider those numbers accurate or acceptable for any debate.

Any local in the area knows of the tribal poaching issues that were happening in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s and it was BAD.  And there were ZERO consequences for the poachers.  Game Wardens were required to turn them over to the tribe, who did nothing.

The issue trophyhunt brings forward is very legitimate, but it is also mostly historical at this point.

Thank you, couldn’t have said it better.  I have been friends with a 40+ year veteran of the Wdfw fish and game officer, that’s where I get my facts.

My guess is we have the same friend

Was your friend reprimanded for harassment or treatment of natives?  Mr Chandler want to weigh in on if you had in depth discussions with him?  Just saying....

[trophyhunt]

I would not consider those numbers accurate or acceptable for any debate.

Any local in the area knows of the tribal poaching issues that were happening in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s and it was BAD.  And there were ZERO consequences for the poachers.  Game Wardens were required to turn them over to the tribe, who did nothing.

The issue trophyhunt brings forward is very legitimate, but it is also mostly historical at this point.

Thank you, couldn’t have said it better.  I have been friends with a 40+ year veteran of the Wdfw fish and game officer, that’s where I get my facts.

My guess is we have the same friend

Was your friend reprimanded for harassment or treatment of natives?  Mr Chandler want to weigh in on if you had in depth discussions with him?  Just saying....

probably, he was one that stood up to the mucks BS, like shooting bulls on private property at night time. Or the time he followed blood tracks in the snow to several dead elk while two were actually harvested by the natives?  If I could only get him to respond to your comment you'd get an ear full for hours, the truth exposed gets nasty, I promise if he wrote a book, your fellow natives would not look good in that region.  This is getting ugly now, sorry guys, but truth hurts.

[trophyhunt]

The herds were all thriving and robust and sustainable before any non natives showed up that's where I get my facts non natives would of slaughtered everything if It wasn't for Roosevelt that's a fact ,we're lucky the muckleshoot are doing some studies I don't see any studies or harvest data from the tribe that don't even have to get tags and are unlimited ?that data will probably help you all to continue to hunt and be enjoying  the outdoors and some guys still bad mouth information you wouldn't have otherwise I don't get it? NOW MY TURN TO DROP THE MIC

I think if you replace non natives and natives with "humans" you would have a more accurate point.  Humans caused the decline.  Humans initiated conservation efforts.

This is an incorrect statement.  Natives were absolutely the first practitioners of conservation.

not the first but we could debate that for ever, the natives took the land from others before we came along.

[ctwiggs1]

I'm not sure how on earth buffalo jumps are or were considered conservation.  There were *fewer* Natives which means the animals were able to reproduce and the ecosystem was able to harmonize *despite* their hunting.

As for the GW... Yes, he constantly enforced laws on poachers regardless of who it was.  And yes, he was reprimanded for it.  Why?  Because the WDFW doesn't "give a @#$% about elk", per Deputy Chief Cenci.  For those of us who do, and appreciate the enforcement of law, we salute you Mr. GW.

 

[trophyhunt]

I'm not sure how on earth buffalo jumps are or were considered conservation.  There were *fewer* Natives which means the animals were able to reproduce and the ecosystem was able to harmonize *despite* their hunting.

As for the GW... Yes, he constantly enforced laws on poachers regardless of who it was.  And yes, he was reprimanded for it.  Why?  Because the WDFW doesn't "give a @#$% about elk", per Deputy Chief Cenci.  For those of us who do, and appreciate the enforcement of law, we salute you Mr. GW.

 

[nwwanderer]

Certainly getting away from mule deer management, but what the hay!!!  More than 90% of all species, a human invention trying to name everything, are extinct and the vast majority before man was ever on the scene.  This rock we live on is constantly changing and the 'balance' we hear so much about is another human invention.

[Green broke]

Here is a good article on mule deer and why we are fortunate to have information from the tribal bio's, whom tell the truth about what is happening with ungulate predation in Washington. The only reason we have elk in the Tacoma Watershed unit again is because of their studies about predation and control.

Page 4..

http://www.muckleshoot.nsn.us/media/45234/march%202018%20r.pdf

Give me a F'n break, every time I hear someone say the muckleshoots should be commended for the elk in the watershed makes me want to puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You don't know the past apparently, back when that tag used to be the best tag in the state??  What happened to that elk herd in a matter  of just a couple years? Hmmm, the mucks went in there and wiped them out!!  No more elk, no more permits for us.  Then the mucks start a program to study and transfer elk back into the area and now they are hero's, nobody is that stupid to pat them on the back for that.  Gee thanks for the elk mucks, whatever!  Now on my soft side, I'm glad they saw the error of their ways and turned it around. It is now a great unit for elk, we even have permits for cows.  At least till they decide to go wacko again and slaughter them all, damn, my hard side came out again.  Sorry.

Go all wacko? Look in the mirror! We walk the walk, period! Show one study the state is doing to benefit deer or elk! Their predator prey study? Yeah right..... Maybe to see how robust they can grow predator populations, they certainly can't efficiently manipulate the predators in ways tribes can. You like to cast stones but have never walked the walk yourself. Let me guess, you have been a long standing steward of conservation.