209 powder

[buck n rut]

Has anyone used this powder and Wat do you think about useing it in a knight disc extreme

Thanks in advance for feed back

[Sabotloader]

Has anyone used this powder and Wat do you think about useing it in a knight disc extreme

Thanks in advance for feed back

It is a great powder... convenient as heck as compared to the rest of the BP subs!  But, for myself, it is just to darn expensive for 10 ounces of powder.

[Myrtle Creek Inc.]

It's very clean burning, so depending on what powder you are currently using, you may notice less powder residue.

Blackhorn can be harder to ignite if you're not using the correct primers. The CCI 209M's are what I've always had great luck with. Also, keep in mind, Blackhorn 209 is much hotter and requires a reduction in your powder charge by 20%. The great thing is that with the new 209 law, you'll be able to efficiently burn Blackhorn and get some higher velocities.

[Sabotloader]

It's very clean burning, so depending on what powder you are currently using, you may notice less powder residue.

Blackhorn can be harder to ignite if you're not using the correct primers. The CCI 209M's are what I've always had great luck with. Also, keep in mind, Blackhorn 209 is much hotter and requires a reduction in your powder charge by 20%. The great thing is that with the new 209 law, you'll be able to efficiently burn Blackhorn and get some higher velocities.

I almost cried 'foul' with your statement  so I will just say I would like to take exception to what you are suggesting... 20% reduction is dependent on what powder you were burning before.  T7 or even Swiss and BH shoot very close to each other grain for grain. But if you have been shooting regular BP or any of the Pyro's - you will see an increase in velocity if you shoot a grain for grain switch with either T7 or BH.

As ab example this target shows one comparison that I recently completed using 3 different weight bullets.  Since BH is a smokeless progressive burning powder it looses efficiency with lighter bullets.  The difference doesn't really show until you are shooting a bullet weighing over 260-270 grains.  With a 300 grain bullet you will get a velocity increase in the area of 150fps in a grain for grain comparison.



 

[Myrtle Creek Inc.]

It's very clean burning, so depending on what powder you are currently using, you may notice less powder residue.

Blackhorn can be harder to ignite if you're not using the correct primers. The CCI 209M's are what I've always had great luck with. Also, keep in mind, Blackhorn 209 is much hotter and requires a reduction in your powder charge by 20%. The great thing is that with the new 209 law, you'll be able to efficiently burn Blackhorn and get some higher velocities.

I almost cried 'foul' with your statement  so I will just say I would like to take exception to what you are suggesting... 20% reduction is dependent on what powder you were burning before.  T7 or even Swiss and BH shoot very close to each other grain for grain. But if you have been shooting regular BP or any of the Pyro's - you will see an increase in velocity if you shoot a grain for grain switch with either T7 or BH.

As ab example this target shows one comparison that I recently completed using 3 different weight bullets.  Since BH is a smokeless progressive burning powder it looses efficiency with lighter bullets.  The difference doesn't really show until you are shooting a bullet weighing over 260-270 grains.  With a 300 grain bullet you will get a velocity increase in the area of 150fps in a grain for grain comparison.

Sabotloader,

Thank you for your information. I probably could've phrased my information a little better, but I was going for a more simple explanation. My only real concern is someone trying to shoot 150 grains of Blackhorn, instead of ensuring they only use the recommended maximum charge of 120 grains by volume on Blackhorn.

I really appreciate you including actual load data that you experienced!

[Sabotloader]

I agree that it should be noted that Western Powders says that 120 by volume (84 by weight) is maximum.

Here is another comparison with T7 & BH.  This one shows the heavier end of the bullet spectrum.

[reelamin]

I was working with this last year.  I chronograph and measure my groups and detail everything.   Here is what I found out.   #1...SABOTLOADER knows his crap and has a insane amount of knowledge and experience he shares willingly!!!  #2 You can shoot all day long and it loads the same from shot 1 to shot 100 with no cleaning, swabbing, or anything but shooting.  #3 I gained minimally more velocity over T73F, more than Pryodex Select, and noticeably more than Pyrodex RS with same accuracy at same velocities.  #4 The cost was INSANE...DID I SAY INSANE....YES IT IS INSANELY EXPENSIVE!!!!!  I shoot several rifles that burn 90-120gr of powder and I was trying to find a way to make this "muzzle loader thing" affordable.  #5 I wasn't going to mess with it  for non-hunting compared to T73F with #11 caps because the cost was way too high for any real world gain.  I was going to use it for hunting because it loaded multiple rounds so easy and was much more stable in weather and leaving rifle loaded for extended periods. 

I was using #11 caps with a small charge of T73F as a kicker.  I never had one ignition problem or erratic velocities.  What I did have was fragments from the cap flying everywhere.  I even went to wearing safety glasses and figuring out what I would wear while hunting.  Never had anything hit me around the eye but lots of arm and cheek contacts from flying cap debris. 

So I had committed to using T73F for everything but hunting and then they pass the 209 primer thing.   Nothing changes for me...doing all the load development again next week with 209 primers.   I know the results on velocity and cleaning between shots but I will eliminate the duplex kicker of T73F. 

I forgot the main reason for this LOL....I called my local North 40/Big R to see if they had any 209 as I needed a few cans to use with the 209's.  They said yes and I asked how much was it now.   The guy replies $19.99....I reply...no the Blackhorn 209 in the 10oz can!!!   He says yep that's what I'm looking at and it's on sale for $19.99.  I tell him I will buy every can you have right now what do I need to do, but he cant sell it to me over the phone.   I tell him I will be there in 30 min and do not sell one can I will buy every can you have...he says ok...but I can tell he does not believe me. 

I show up and I ask about the powder.  He says they are closing it out because they cant sell it.  I told him I would take every can he had, and he asks me "what if I have a lot of it"?  I reply...I guess Ill make a lot of trips to the car.  He says "Are you serious"...as serious as I'm standing here.  He comes out with 12 cans, and I ask if he can get any from other stores delivered.   He says no...you would have to go to each store as they wont ship close out items.   Regardless I scored.....but I will only use it for hunting and any range work will be with T73F.    NO....none is for sale....LOL!   Thanks SABOTLOADER...for your willingness to help us newbies. 

[kselkhunter]

Lucky guy.  I just picked up two cans of BH209 for 2X that cost last week at Sportman's.  Sure you don't want to sell some?  :-)  Sportmans didn't have the CCI 209M primers, so going with Federal 209As. 

But I'm excited for the 209 change.  Got my new breech plug last week for my CVA Accura V2.   And am switching up my sights this year.  Going to the peep rear and globe front sight with fine cross hairs.   This: https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/increased-accuracy-from-an-open-sight-muzzleloader#gs.Hs=CZz8

Just waiting on the Brownell's shipment for the front sight change.

[reelamin]

For all....seriously....hit up your North 40/Big R.  They had no idea 209 was now legal.  Even after I told him it was now legal....he was spot on.   He said by the time their cooperate office caught up it would be at least a year.   I have enough to last me....but it would be worth a short drive.   Heading a few hours away for work tomorrow....yep....my first phone calls are to the local North 40's.

[KP-Skagit]

Complete Muzzy novice here. Bought a Knight LK II 54 cal from a friend a few years back and he lined me out on what loads to use and such. Now with the new laws here is my question, is it possible to use 209 primers with triple seven powder or do you need special powder to use with 209s.

Thanks.

[Sabotloader]

Complete Muzzy novice here. Bought a Knight LK II 54 cal from a friend a few years back and he lined me out on what loads to use and such. Now with the new laws here is my question, is it possible to use 209 primers with triple seven powder or do you need special powder to use with 209s.

Thanks.

Your LK is what I call an 'open breech - plunger' rifle.  It can be switched from 'cap ignition' to 209 ignition.  Knight does offer a FPJ Conversion (red plastic jacket) It is not really made for shooting BH-209 powder. It can be done but there are some safety concerns.  BH really works better with 209 closed ignition system.  There are or was a 'bare primer' system offered at one time but it is hard to find these days.  Knight does not offer it any longer due to liability concerns.

209's will ignite all of the different BP and BP sub powders. The only real problem is the 'crud' that s left in the bore after using a 209 primer... BH-209 does not succumb to this problem.

All the other subs are open to shooting with a 209 primer from your LK.

Personally, and this is just me, I really do not see the need for a 209 system in an open breech rifle. I jumped on the 209 for my open breech rifles but switched back to #11 ignition several years ago.  I also tried musket caps but found, again for me, the #11 to be more reliable and more with standing to the weather if you have the right nipple installed in the rifle.  With #11 caps I would really suggest that you use #11 MAGNUM caps.  I use the CCI #11 Mag cap for all my range and recreational shooting but for hunting I switch to the RWS Dynamit Noble 1075 plus cap.



   

[buck n rut]

So I just bought a knight disc extreme today, to use the 209 primer in the full plastic jacket do I need to by the conversion kit with the new bolt or just a new breech plug?

[Sabotloader]

So I just bought a knight disc extreme today, to use the 209 primer in the full plastic jacket do I need to by the conversion kit with the new bolt or just a new breech plug?

It all depends on what ignition system your new Knight came with... If it was a western version and you want to go to the FPJ (red plastic jacket) then you will need a different bolt housing - your current hammer assembly will work with either bolt housing.  And yes to use a FPJ you will need a FPJ plug.

So which Extreme did you get?

[reelamin]

Just finished up my load development with my Big Horn.   I bedded the action and floated the barrel on it.  This gun just will not shoot under 1.5" with a scope and 2.5" with a peep sight/factory front.   Anyway, using WW Primers I finished up with several bullets that shoot under 3" at 120gr charge at 2180fps.  Everyone of the groups opened up another 1" opened up at a 130gr charge.  Yesterday I shot 80 rounds, and today another 21 with not one swab or cleaning.   Final choice was the Barnes 290 TEZ in the factory blue or the HPH24 that final measured .502 averaging 2.7" for 3 shots using the terrible factory fiber optic front and Williams standard peep diameter rear. 

[buck n rut]

I have the western version.  I've looked everywhere for the conversion kit and everyone is sold out or on back order till July.