Oversize are coming

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

well lets see, since the spawning fish do 2 things in the summer. eat eat eat and swim.. yes id say a reallllly good number of them are hooked more then once from the estuary to the dam.. im just 1 boat and hooked almost 200 last year myself.. now times that by 100's of boats and the number gets big pretty fast..... then you have all the bank guys that hook numerous oversize a day keeper fishing etc..... maybe not 99% but im sure its a  very high percentage...... so again Id love to see some more studies on these fish......

[rasbo]

Ive wondered about how all the oversized fish that are caught, how it would affect them,I see people targeting them.how many are caught several times,then grabbed and pawed at for pics.Do sea lions take bites out of the while they are hooked.I went for keepers and we used herring no oversize were hooked.

[huntnphool]

im just 1 boat and hooked almost 200 last year myself.. now times that by 100's of boats and the number gets big pretty fast.....

Well I would consider you part of the problem then Hoyt, you actually go down to target those fish. I went down and fished 40+ days last year and only hooked 3 oversize fish, but still managed to fill most peoples cards after the river warmed.

 You can deny it all you want but I tend to side with the fish biologists over a "guide" when they say it stresses the fish out up to and to the point of not spawning.

 I'm not telling you what you can and can't do but don't come on here and point the finger at the sea lions, poachers, lack of F&G initiative etc. and then pretend that what you are doing has no detrimental affect on the fish

[boneaddict]

I don't expect you to change any, but I'd have to agree with WDFWhates and Phool.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

http://www.ifish.net/doc/Oversize.doc

Here is some good info.
From what i read it says that there are about 2500 oversize fish from portland to bonneville, and the hens will only spawn every 2 years or longer between spawning, some have waited up to 11 years between spawns. The males can spawn every year.

I guess i will leave it to others to ruin the breeding class.

[huntnphool]

Good info WDFWHM, thanks for the link.

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

I really hope that you guyrs read all of that, if so then to me it says it "could" have a impact, a meteor also "could" hit earth at anytime.. the one stat that stands out to me is....6)   It is generally believed that actively breeding adults are not feeding and are not very susceptible to line fisheries that use bait.. so with that general belief which is just as documented as the opinions already stated against the oversize fishery . then the fish that I and every other angler hooks on average are non breeding adults, so im curious to what way that might hurt the overall population? another stat ... .  Between 2000 and 2002, 14% of the males observed were actively spermiating so just over 10% of the fish were spawning so with that lets say I hooked 150 in may/june  so 17 of those fish were spawners and of those 17  maybe 1 or 2 did not spawn this year but will in 2 more years....... my point is at this point not enough info is available to really say one way or the other, I do know however if there was enough to support that the sport fishery is hurting the population then oversize fishing would be shut down in the summer.. that as of yet has not happened.... and Phool, your 3 oversize is not a great stat at all, if I recall you fish the estuary in the summer? all those fish are moving up river so it is no surprise you hook very few..... meanwhile the legal fish are moving back down, also no surprise you filled cards.... I caught 50+ keepers this fall at the dam and the same or more oversize well after they spawned and I was not targeting them...... its all in the water you fish, of course you know that.......

[hogsniper]

Good info wdfw    crazy to see the info behind those study's.    In 2003 71% of the oversized fish had scars or hooks in them.    Some hardy fish and cant wait to get back down and catch some next year!!!! Justin

[huntnphool]

Phool, your 3 oversize is not a great stat at all, if I recall you fish the estuary in the summer? all those fish are moving up river so it is no surprise you hook very few.

But Hoyt, that is my point. I go down and catch plenty of keepers, filling most cards for the year and catch few oversize while doing it. If there is even a question, why would you choose to fish with whole shad, where the possibilty of hooking one of these fish exists, let alone target them? You claim to be a guide that relies on these fish as part of your income, if this is true how can you possibly support the targetting of these fish if there is any chance the biologists are right? Unless of course you're simply looking at it from a short term, get mine while I can, finacial point of view.

nothing beter then a 10ft fish tailwalking behind the boat!!!

Agreed, but when thats what you're targetting look in the mirror when it comes time to point the finger of blame.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

So hoyt you are O.K. with thew fact that you might have directly impacted 2 spawners because they might spawn again in 2 years??? Did you read the part where they might go 11 years between spawning?

Regardless of the studies people will read it and make there argument as to what it said to fit there point of view. I like to look at the number of fish hooked in the spawning period May-July versus the rest of the year. And the resulting decline in number of fish. I am only 32 and when i was a kid you could keep 2 or 3 fish a day from 36-72 inches every day. Now you have to have a law degree to figure out when you can keep a fish, and how big it must be. I think people are blind to the fact that in the last 20 years the impact of over fishing, and overstressing of the breeding population has been a detriment to the numbers in the lower river.

But i guess if you are making a buck off of it, or you are just having a jolly old time with it, then it should be allowed and no questions should be asked. And when they do shut it down i guess you could ask Osama for a handout and blame the netters on the decline of the population to feel good about yourself.

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

There also used to be 15 million salmon in our river and many over 100lbs..... back when it was 2 a day that was very poor managment, even less was known then.. I personally dont think the fishing for legal size fish has gotten any worse IMO.... since back then, sure the slot limits have changed.. but the numbers of fish to catch are still there.. so I dont think it has had as big of effect as some think, also I guess I should be pissed about you  when you used to fish for them right?  or the 3 incidental ones that Phool tied into? its all the same, you will hook them....  but to answer your question, No Im not going to stop fishing for them, nor is any other guide and plenty of recreational anglers..... you have your opinion based on  very iffy facts at best..... this is liken to saying if bigfoot is real or not, there is some eviendece that says yes and plenty that says no...... you can choose to believe what you wish, with over 1 million fish in the columbia system alone, I dont think it will be bad anytime in thenear of far future......

[fishseeker]

Hoyt, that's what we thought about Salmon and steehead in the 60s and 70s. Sadly we were very wrong

[tmike]

Fishseeker good point. Hoyt I know looking at Wild Steelhead verses Sturgeon is maybe comparing apples to oranges but for a second.. Look what's happening to the Wild Steelhead. Several years ago many of us may have been making the same argument about them as you are now about Sturgeon.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

The reason they keep reducing the slot limit is what???

And yes, go ahead and be mad that i used to catch 50 undersize sturgeon in a day, WHEN I WAS 12...
I am an adult now and i am reasonable, and responsible for my actions.

I am not asking you to stop fishing, it will not help... Kind of like talking to a brick wall. Just trying to give some people some perspective.
Because people like you come on here and brag and spout off that you catch 200 oversize fish a year and don't care that it does effect the fishery when you multiply yourself time 10 or greater. I guess you must have missed that part in the study that said they had fish with multiple hook marks that had unviable eggs, i guess that was from something else though. Couldn't have been from stress...

Better get out there and get them while you can.
And Hoyt i am not picking on you, i feel strongly about this subject and will argue it with anybody.

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

Thats fine argue away, I love though when someone posts numbers on a forum its always bragging, how about just the truth? amd as far as the salmon in the 60's and 70's it was already really bad by then in comparison to what it once was.... they change the slot limits and days to make the seasons last longer.. we have a quota of fish... you know this, so in a effort to make the season last longer then 2 weeks.. they make it only 3-4 days a week, just like salmon this year, we caught 14k in 2 weeks last year, not much of a season for all of us, with it only being 4 days a year this year the season lasts longer. win win IMO........ and if i was to stop in reality what would that do? all the other people would still be fishing for them....