Farmer got confrontational with me while on state land

[donsk16]

"The Discover Pass offers you access to millions of acres of state recreation lands in Washington"

[KFhunter]

*but not all of state land

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[pianoman9701]

It's public land, Macs. It belongs to all of us. He leases the land with the understanding that his lease doesn't include private property rights. He signed the lease. He knew the deal. If he doesn't like the agreement he signed, that's really his problem.

[JakeLand]

You absolutely correct, the State does sell access.  So does timber, federal lands etc. etc. etc..  This notion that citizens own state land is cute, but it sure isn't accurate.  Private citizens may have a right to access a piece of ground but only with permission of the State.  The very act of publishing guidelines to utilize public owned lands is in fact giving you permission.  That permission can be withdrawn without need of legislative action and it can be changed by administrative action. 

My position is that a lease farmer has more right to the land he has leased than you do, why not respect his investment?

uhhh NO !! He has the same right as everyone else no more no less

[Skillet]

I think there's two groups talking past each other here. One side is advocating for the strict interpretation of the letter of the law and the concept of publicly owned resources, and they're right about that.  The other group is advocating for being courteous and respectful towards a group of farmers that are trying to scratch out a living, and they're right about that.
Both sides are right about what they're saying, but trying to shape the argument to fit what they are right about.
I know some of you guys on both sides of this, and know that when push comes to shove none of you would intentionally cause grief for the other guys. 
It is possible to share DNR land cohesively.  It seems to me that the DNR has dropped the ball in educating their leaseholders on what is permitted or not.  And it also seems to me that there should be a way to access the leases to ask if the leaseholder has any specific concerns about public use of the land while they're operating the lease.

This group of guys here on the site generally represent the very best of land stewardship I've ever come across.  We all care, and I think if each groups concerns were taken on their own merits, we'd all agree to the highest degree.

 

[Knocker of rocks]

uhhh NO !! He has the same right as everyone else no more no less

As the lessor, the farmer has the right to fence, farm, till and maintain the parcel, as well as exclude others as per state law and with permission of the managing agency. These rights are specific to the lessor and are not granted to the general public.

[NOCK NOCK]

It's public land, Macs. It belongs to all of us. He leases the land with the understanding that his lease doesn't include private property rights. He signed the lease. He knew the deal. If he doesn't like the agreement he signed, that's really his problem.

 

[papaonthemountain]

Skillet.... very well said.  As one who has held both state ag and grazing leases along with a grazing permits on the National Forest,  I have had 48 years of my 70 years dealing with the two groups of which Skillet portrays.  I will make no effort to enumerate the times of open gates, cut fences, trash, shot up property, poached deer, trespassers, etc....  These and the attitudes/actions that some on this thread portend became the overriding factor in shutting down approximately 10,000 acres of arguably the best whitetail hunting property in Okanogan County.  It used to be a 'feel free to hunt bottle of whiskey when you got a buck'.  Actions matter.  What do you think us farmers talk about at the early morning coffee clutches after engaging with Mr. No Respect?  What do you think are the ramifications of our conversations?   .....Amen     

[Dan-o]

Skillet.... very well said.  As one who has held both state ag and grazing leases along with a grazing permits on the National Forest,  I have had 48 years of my 70 years dealing with the two groups of which Skillet portrays.  I will make no effort to enumerate the times of open gates, cut fences, trash, shot up property, poached deer, trespassers, etc....  These and the attitudes/actions that some on this thread portend became the overriding factor in shutting down approximately 10,000 acres of arguably the best whitetail hunting property in Okanogan County.  It used to be a 'feel free to hunt bottle of whiskey when you got a buck'.  Actions matter.  What do you think us farmers talk about at the early morning coffee clutches after engaging with Mr. No Respect?  What do you think are the ramifications of our conversations?   .....Amen     

You are describing slobs and scofflaws.   I wish they didn't exist.   I wish the ones that doe exist would get prosecuted for those crimes.    Poaching, cutting fences, littering etc...........   Not OK on ANY land.

But, DNR land is open for us to hunt, and lease holders need to respect their end of that bargain as well.

And if I saw someone do that crap on DNR land, I would try very hard to get a pic of their license plate and turn them in.

[j_h_nimrod]

A little off topic, but toward the state land use/lease question.

Out of curiosity, I used to hunt Chelan Buttes quite a bit and there is a lot of ag land up there. I had always assumed (and think I read it somewhere) that that land was cultivated by the state for bird and game management. Was I wrong and this land was leased farm land?  I’m sure I could look it up, but frankly I’m too lazy to wait through my slow internet connection. I never saw any postings up there other than state road closed/don’t drive off-road signs. Is this land managed differently?  Never had any issues up there, a lot of birds, deer, and coyotes. Very interesting area with the old homesteads and mines.

[Skillet]

Skillet.... very well said.  As one who has held both state ag and grazing leases along with a grazing permits on the National Forest,  I have had 48 years of my 70 years dealing with the two groups of which Skillet portrays.  I will make no effort to enumerate the times of open gates, cut fences, trash, shot up property, poached deer, trespassers, etc....  These and the attitudes/actions that some on this thread portend became the overriding factor in shutting down approximately 10,000 acres of arguably the best whitetail hunting property in Okanogan County.  It used to be a 'feel free to hunt bottle of whiskey when you got a buck'.  Actions matter.  What do you think us farmers talk about at the early morning coffee clutches after engaging with Mr. No Respect?  What do you think are the ramifications of our conversations?   .....Amen     

That sounds frustrating, but I'm afraid you missed my point.  If you would indulge me, a few responses to these questions might be helpful-

As a lease holder, can you share some of the good experiences you had with public access?   Did you have any basic expectations of a "good" public land user on your leases?  Was there any opportunity to encourage multi-user use of the publicly-owned land that you leased?  Did the leasing agencies discuss public access in the negotiation process?  If so, did they lean more towards "allow public access to the land whenever possible" or "you may post the land at will"?

Basically, we've got guys on your side who feel put upon with having to deal with some percentage of bad actors, and guys on the other side who feel like they're being unfairly shut out or discouraged from using public land. 

How do you see a way to maximize the value of your leases while allowing John Q Public to enjoy what is owned by is all?

[2MANY]

Public land is one thing but it always amazes me the entitlement that people feel to someone's private property.

Until you have been on the land owner's side you have no idea.

NOTE: Very few big land owners post here and I'm not a big land owner.

[pianoman9701]

Public land is one thing but it always amazes me the entitlement that people feel to someone's private property.

Until you have been on the land owner's side you have no idea.

NOTE: Very few big land owners post here and I'm not a big land owner.

This thread has zero to do with private property and landowners. I'm absolutely a supporter of private property rights. I'm also a supporter of public property rights for the public.

[KopperBuck]

Anyone know if these are cash leases or share cropped? If cash leased (I'd be shocked if they weren't), could the crop be looked at as private property? Just curious.

[2MANY]

Public land is one thing but it always amazes me the entitlement that people feel to someone's private property.

Until you have been on the land owner's side you have no idea.

NOTE: Very few big land owners post here and I'm not a big land owner.

This thread has zero to do with private property and landowners. I'm absolutely a supporter of private property rights. I'm also a supporter of public property rights for the public.

Agreed.
Since we all own the public stuff shouldn't we respect it like it was someone's property other than our own?
Because it is................................Everyone's.
It's all about respect.