Question regarding "untraceable" firearms

[adamR]

I've been thinking that it would be fun to finish my own 80% AR.  I know that prior to July 1, I'm still able to do that without issue.  My question is, is there any legal issue with using, carrying, shooting, or having in my possession a gun without a serial number?  For instance, if I built a predator rifle that started as an 80% lower and ran into a sheriff/game warden, am I doing anything wrong from a legal standpoint?

[Katmai Guy]

Hope not because I'm doing the same thing.

[Special T]

My Question is how would they know when it was built? You would have to either register it, or have some kind of Proof of Life photo with a newspaper and a date.

[woodswalker]

My Question is how would they know when it was built? You would have to either register it, or have some kind of Proof of Life photo with a newspaper and a date.

This one will be interesting...enforcement will be creative.  I sure dont want to be the test case tho.

[81husky]

Unless I'm mistaken, the new law does nothing to prevent you from making your own firearm unless you're prohibited from having firearms. You can't make one with the intent to sell it, but that's already covered under Federal law. You can also put your own serial number on it at your discretion. Doesn't matter what the number is, and might be a good idea if it ever got stolen. 

[Bill W]

There used to be a fee that was to be paid to the ATF upon completion of assembly of the parts.  I think it's way overlooked among the hobbyists assembling kits. 

[Boss .300 winmag]

🤔

[dreadi]

You’re fine to build and use in any legal manner.

[adamR]

Unless I'm mistaken, the new law does nothing to prevent you from making your own firearm unless you're prohibited from having firearms. You can't make one with the intent to sell it, but that's already covered under Federal law. You can also put your own serial number on it at your discretion. Doesn't matter what the number is, and might be a good idea if it ever got stolen.

Makes sense but I see it as though prior to July 1, they had no definition for a completed 80% lower, now they will.  I'm sure that very soon after that we will see more regulations regarding untracable firearms.  My thought was that prior to July 1, I wouldnt be involved, in theory, with future infringement.

[adamR]

I can't find anything telling me that a gun is required to have a serial number and thats also what it sounds like here so I guess I'll roll the dice and not worry about it.

[Skyvalhunter]

That's good advice there

[SGTDuffman]

There used to be a fee that was to be paid to the ATF upon completion of assembly of the parts.  I think it's way overlooked among the hobbyists assembling kits.

I believe that fee is only if you plan to sell the completed firearm, and would part of your license application related to being a manufacturer. Likewise with the serial number. As long as it is only ever for personal use, it requires neither. You will never be able to sell it though.

[kselkhunter]

If building your own 80% setup, why not just stamp a serial number on it?  Make it the date code of when it was built, so there is no doubt of when you made it.   That way you have a defensible position in the future if necessary.  You still have the issue of not being able to ever sell the self-manufactured gun (not without the proper license).


 

 

[dreadi]

Firearms (non NFA) made for personal use by unlicensed persons are not required to have a serial number or a unique identifier. If you decide to sell it one day, you are not required to have a serial number or unique identifier marked on the firearm.

[hunter399]

Firearms (non NFA) made for personal use by unlicensed persons are not required to have a serial number or a unique identifier. If you decide to sell it one day, you are not required to have a serial number or unique identifier marked on the firearm.

I'm not 100% sure but your not allowed to sell firearms you make at home .
That would make u a firearm manufacturer without proper licenses.
When you make it ,it's yours for life.
Now there's no way of knowing that you sold it except the person who buys it.
I wouldn't get caught.

[JimmyHoffa]

probably a mistype.

[dreadi]

Firearms (non NFA) made for personal use by unlicensed persons are not required to have a serial number or a unique identifier. If you decide to sell it one day, you are not required to have a serial number or unique identifier marked on the firearm.

I'm not 100% sure but your not allowed to sell firearms you make at home .
That would make u a firearm manufacturer without proper licenses.
When you make it ,it's yours for life.
Now there's no way of knowing that you sold it except the person who buys it.
I wouldn't get caught.

I am 100% sure that you are allowed to sell firearms that you make for your personal use. It is illegal for unlicensed persons to make firearms with the intent to sell.

[Special T]

With the ease of 80% guns I'm not sure why you would chance selling a home made reciever. Additionally I'm not sure why you would do so when if you wanted to change calibers it would be easy to do so while retaining it.

When you check out the palmetto Arms build kitsch and the prices, or the different uppers  available I'm not sure why you would risk it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Angry Perch]

Firearms (non NFA) made for personal use by unlicensed persons are not required to have a serial number or a unique identifier. If you decide to sell it one day, you are not required to have a serial number or unique identifier marked on the firearm.

I'm not 100% sure but your not allowed to sell firearms you make at home .
That would make u a firearm manufacturer without proper licenses.
When you make it ,it's yours for life.
Now there's no way of knowing that you sold it except the person who buys it.
I wouldn't get caught.

I am 100% sure that you are allowed to sell firearms that you make for your personal use. It is illegal for unlicensed persons to make firearms with the intent to sell.

That sounds like a grey area I'd like to steer clear of.

[konradcountry]

I wouldn't bother with an 80% unless you never plan on selling it. Even if you stamp it they aren't good for resale value.

[Special T]

I wouldn't bother with an 80% unless you never plan on selling it. Even if you stamp it they aren't good for resale value.

i guess my point would be with all the stupid rules make an 80% and keep it. what are you out? $40 and a few hours? the greatest part of AR builds is th emany different calibers you can have/ own with one setup.

suposidly its legal to sell a homemade gun... but for an extra $80 I would keep it my own safe and not tempt fate.

[KFhunter]

Firearms may be lawfully made by persons who do not hold a manufacturer’s license under the GCA provided they are not for sale or distribution and the maker is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.  However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semiautomatic rifle or shotgun from 10 or more imported parts, as set forth in regulations in 27 CFR 478.39.  In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and advance approval by ATF.  An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for the official use of a Federal, State or local government agency (18 U.S.C. § 922(o),(r); 26 U.S.C. § 5822; 27 CFR §§ 478.39, 479.62, and 479.105).   
 
Additionally, although markings are not required on firearms manufactured for personal use (excluding NFA firearms), owners are recommended to conspicuously place or engrave a serial number and/ or other marks of identification to aid in investigation or recovery by State or local law enforcement officials in the event of a theft or loss of the privately owned firearm.


So there may be a grey area regarding intent when making the gun.  If the gun was made for personal use and not for sale, but then later sold...
dangerous waters there.  Personally I would never sell a milled out and completed 80% lower.  As soon as you sell a homemade gun the government can show intent to sell...cause you just sold it

[hunter399]

Sounds like if you want to sell it,you need to put a serial number and register it first.A grey area I want no part of.
And yes I do own a 80lower milled by me for personal use and looked into some laws before hand.