Ethics of using someone else's treestand?

[full choke]

So you and your family are going to a Forest service campground for a day trip to have a picnic. There are 10 designated spots in this campground. When you arrive, they are all occupied by other picnicker's.

Do you go ahead and set up your family in spot #7 with the Smith's.....telling them that its public land....your family is blocking my family from having a picnic?      or      Do you move along and find another spot to picnic?

Why is hunting any different?
The stand owner is not trying to "reserve" his spot in the woods, telling all others "this is my area", he simply found a good looking area that he wants to hunt.

If you come across another's stand, YES its public land, sit below the tree, walk the area, climb the tree and sit on a branch, hunt it however you see fit, just DO NOT TOUCH other folks stuff, its not yours.

That is really not the same analogy.
If spot #7 was empty, except for a table cloth that Mr Smith left there because he planned to be back at some other time to picnic there with his family- then we would be talking about the same thing.
Is it ok for Mr Smith to assume, that since his table cloth is there, that someone else should not use it while he was not there? Maybe the new group should politely fold the cloth up and set it aside, use there own cloth for their picnic and put Mr Smiths back when they are done? Maybe.
But the consensus on this thread says I should not even touch Mr Smiths table cloth. I should go find another picnic table to use.
But why should Mr Smith get to leave his crap out in the campground when he was not there? Nevermind- that is ok, because Mr Smith was there at some point and wanted to picnic there again. He shouldn't have to remove his table cloth, and you shouldn't touch it either.

                       

[hunter399]

What if there was no stand,but just bait ,trail cam,and a Hunter actively hunting .Woulnd you set up 40 yards away and hunt this spot or would you find a different spot to hunt.

If you're directing that toward me, I don't hunt over bait or use trail cams, so I don't think of those things as someone 'actively hunting'.  I have respect for boundaries and giving the other hunter space so if I see the hunter, I'll move on unless I'm there first.  If I see a camera or empty ground blind / stand or a lick, I'm not going to leave just because of that.

No I'm not directing it at anybody.
But had this same exact thing happen to me last year.
I put out cams ,bait,for about 6-4 month before seasons start in spring.
So I show up maybe 2:00 in the afternoon to hunt this spot public land nobody there .well a few hours later guy pulls up in his truck .which was fine with I figured he would hunt the opposite side of road.not long he is sittin maybe 30 yards away from me.I also had some strange files on my sd card which seemed to me he had been checking my cam maybe a few days before deer season started.anyway I hunted it Anyway till almost dark then left pretty disgusted .
I know public land and all that.But I have never had anybody sit 30 yards from me and hunt the same draw trying to see who is quicker on the trigger.

Never the less not a good feeling when you spent your hard earned money on,salt,corn,grain,to check your cam days before the season,if he would of been there first I would of gladly moved on and hunted somewhere else I would never sit 30 yards from someone like.never will I put a cam in that spot.
And no I have never hunted in someone's stand.but I might ground hunt if no one is there.

[2MANY]

Hunting is about seclusion for me.
Find it.

[SuperX]

Hunting is about seclusion for me.
Find it.

Me too, well said!

[SuperX]

What if there was no stand,but just bait ,trail cam,and a Hunter actively hunting .Woulnd you set up 40 yards away and hunt this spot or would you find a different spot to hunt.

If you're directing that toward me, I don't hunt over bait or use trail cams, so I don't think of those things as someone 'actively hunting'.  I have respect for boundaries and giving the other hunter space so if I see the hunter, I'll move on unless I'm there first.  If I see a camera or empty ground blind / stand or a lick, I'm not going to leave just because of that.

No I'm not directing it at anybody.
But had this same exact thing happen to me last year.
I put out cams ,bait,for about 6-4 month before seasons start in spring.
So I show up maybe 2:00 in the afternoon to hunt this spot public land nobody there .well a few hours later guy pulls up in his truck .which was fine with I figured he would hunt the opposite side of road.not long he is sittin maybe 30 yards away from me.I also had some strange files on my sd card which seemed to me he had been checking my cam maybe a few days before deer season started.anyway I hunted it Anyway till almost dark then left pretty disgusted .
I know public land and all that.But I have never had anybody sit 30 yards from me and hunt the same draw trying to see who is quicker on the trigger.

Never the less not a good feeling when you spent your hard earned money on,salt,corn,grain,to check your cam days before the season,if he would of been there first I would of gladly moved on and hunted somewhere else I would never sit 30 yards from someone like.never will I put a cam in that spot.
And no I have never hunted in someone's stand.but I might ground hunt if no one is there.

I feel for ya!  I had a similar thing happen elk hunting this past season.  After setting up my tent, I had a group of 8! hunters walk down the river 100 yards and stomp a new campsite into the brush on the bank and hunt there when they found I was "in their spot" that I've been hunting 3+ years.  Never mind an older gentleman had set his tent up right across the river within 50y and told them he was there first when they were still breaking brush to set up a tent.  They ignored him.
 
Every time I broke a branch or cow called, some 'guide' would run up the hill with a bugle tube and bedraggled hunter dogging him and blow up my calling spot.  I nicked named the duo 'angry red face guy' (cause he always looked mad and was beet red) and booney boots (booney hat and always watching his feet instead of the woods).

I'm hunting MT this year.

[OutHouse]

Interesting discussion. I would not climb into anyone's stand or blind but if it appears abandoned that raises another issue. If it clearly has not been used in a long time i.e. thick coat of dust, moss on the seat etc.. it would appear to be abandoned. The intent to abandon would be evidenced by the obvious long term lack of use and failure to retrieve. At that point, one might legally take it as their own. The law treats lost, mislaid, and abandoned property differently. I wouldn't take it regardless.

[Odell]

Comparing this to an abandoned vehicle is a pretty poor comparison but whatever floats your boat. I’m also fairly sure on most public land as well as most timber company land it’s illegal to leave permanent stands which if they’ve been there years that’s considered permanent.

That's pretty much what I'm saying. If it's against the law and we have law enforcement to enforce those laws why would I think that it's my responsibility to take action against it without involving them? I didn't make the rules, I am not charged with enforcing the rules, I don't know the big picture of what's all going on in the area with whom, it's not my stand, I say leave it alone and report it if you want but don't climb into it.

This is an ethical thread, not a legal thread. Asking individual ethics. If someone is trying to block me from hunting public land, i'm not losing sleep over moving or using a stand. And I would move a truck blocking me if I could do it without damaging it. Just like I would take down a fake "no trespassing/hunting" sign on public land.

I understand some of you hold an ethic that apparently keeps you from even touching something you don't own. I have no problem with that. I just don't see it the same way. Public hunting has enough challenges without people leaving stands and blinds up expecting that you can't hunt that spot.

1. Do you really believe that folks use tree stands as a means of "blocking you" from hunting public land?
…..Wow, I personally believe very few, if any others do it for that reason.

2. You would move a truck that was, again, "blocking" you?
….What gives you more right to be there than the truck owner who was there 1st?

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it sure appears there is a sense of entitlement here.....the exact thing you are against. 

First off, I've never done either. This is all hypothetical. I've also never hunted from a tree stand in my life and only from blinds on private property. So don't get too carried away.

But lets say I have a blue Mnt Elk tag and I come around a corner and find a truck with a big Mossback sticker on it, intentionally blocking the road so no one can drive any further, even though there are miles of open road ahead. If that truck is unlocked, they will return to find it parked nicely on the shoulder instead of the middle of the road. Yes, people intentionally block roads with their trucks to keep others from hunting. This absolutely happens.

If the ethics of finding a stand or a blind in the woods somehow means "you can't hunt here because my stand is here" (as many on this thread have implied) then they are blocking anyone else from hunting there. They are certainly blocking the tree that another stand hunter might want to use. If I had a stand and needed the tree, I would have no problem moving that tree stand in order to make room for mine, or just using it.

Just keep in mind all you judgmental types that this only makes me a scumbag hypothetically, I've never actually done any of this...

[huntnfmly]

This thread is amazing.
Nobody is saying you can't hunt a spot because their stand or blind is there all the ethical people are saying is don't f with other people's stuff and if you're wondering if I'm calling anybody who messes with other people's stuff as in this thread in ethical  I am. This is seriously stuff that kindergarten kids know if it's not yours leave it alone
I seriously cannot believe that some of you think it's ok.

[KFhunter]

Well my deal is I hardly ever see anyone, competition for spots is nearly nil.
   
So if someone happens to find my setup and uses it, it's because their a slob hunter and want to steal my hard work, steal my time, steal my money I spent scouting, and theft of the use of my gear I carefully setup for temporary use.  Also its a theft of my day off work because I'm going to be mad all day long and unable to enjoy the rest of my hunt.

There's a ton of other places to hunt with nobody in it to make their own setups w/o stealing mine.   


Yes I have and use a climber, but I also have multiple hang on stands and no I'm not going to remove them each day, typically I only have one stand up at a time though as hanging stands attract attention.  I also think hang on stands are quieter (already hung) and much safer to use.   I also take the steps with me to discourage climbing in them, I use lone wolf ladder sections.

[buckfvr]

If you're brought up to respect other peoples property, you just do.......ethics vary from individual to individual, and one mans bad may not be anothers.  That being said, I just move on if I encounter someone elses shtuff, and as far as Im concerned so should every one else.

[jackelope]

On national forest the rule is actually not to be left unattended. So is it ethical for someone to not follow that rule by leaving a stand up to try and save their hunting spot on public land.

Source?

[Odell]

On national forest the rule is actually not to be left unattended. So is it ethical for someone to not follow that rule by leaving a stand up to try and save their hunting spot on public land.

Source?

You can find it on the usda website.


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[Odell]

This thread is amazing.
Nobody is saying you can't hunt a spot because their stand or blind is there all the ethical people are saying is don't f with other people's stuff and if you're wondering if I'm calling anybody who messes with other people's stuff as in this thread in ethical  I am. This is seriously stuff that kindergarten kids know if it's not yours leave it alone
I seriously cannot believe that some of you think it's ok.

The post literally below yours says to hunt where his stand is means you have stolen from him.

I respect private property. I respect the idea that public land belongs to us all. When they come in conflict with each other, public land for hunting trumps private property left on it.


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[KFhunter]

On national forest the rule is actually not to be left unattended. So is it ethical for someone to not follow that rule by leaving a stand up to try and save their hunting spot on public land.

Source?

You can find it on the usda website.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

each national forest has its own rules set by the director for that region, the Colville national forest has no specific rule on tree stands or salt licks or bait or ground blinds, yet if you go to another national forest page they may have rules that say it must not be abandoned, but they do not quantify what abandoned means. 
There is no set time limit to when an item becomes "abandoned", and besides you do not have the authority to declare a thing abandoned.

Even if you did have that authority, say you worked for USFS, you could not do it unless on duty then you couldn't hunt anyways, and if you did it off duty to hunt there then you'd violate color of law. 


but this is an ethics thread, but it seems some people's ethics are married to the law, which means they have no ethics, because ethics go beyond what the law requires.

[Skyvalhunter]

Or the so called District Ranger