MODERN FIREARM ELK SEASON

[Huntboy]

Why more days, just ask for a better portion of the season.

[colockumelk]

The reason why the seasons are the way they are is because we don't have enough elk, or habitat to accomadate the amount of elk hunters Washington have.  So that's sort of how they control the limit, by using shorter seasons and putting those seasons in not so ideal time frames.

If they were to make the seasons like places such as Montana or Colorado with the amount of hunters we have our elk herds would be decimated in a short period of time. 

When referring to better seasons and better quality and opportunity we have to decide whether we would want better season with better quality and a higher success rate with permit only and only get to hunt every 2 or 3 years.  Or would we rather have what we have now which is a general season where we can hunt every year but have a sub-par quality elk hunt.  Some would prefer the quality over what we have now and some prefer the opportunity to hunt every year.  That is what is the real issue.  Unfortunately we can't have both.  Just too many hunters hunting not enough elk with not enough habitat. 

If you want to know how many branch bull permits they could give out for the Yakima and Colockum elk herds if they went to permit only go to this link and read my article on it.  And after checking with some department people who will remain nameless my numbers are only off by 1.9%.  And for those that are wondering I am not advocating that it needs to go to permit only.  I just did a paper on conservation for biology and this is what I came up with.  I'm just saying this is how it could be.  If it went and that it wouldn't be too horible if it did.   

http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/85

[Crunchy]

Although I think the season is too short I cant see them extending it any.  Maybe give them two days in December???

[Intruder]

In general No.... maybe some draw hunts though.

[MAGhunter]

I agree with a later portion of the season

[fisheral87]

Why more days, just ask for a better portion of the season.

[GoldTip]

Here's my    Switch it to a 3 week season.  Cut the number of tags available to 50% of what was sold last year.  First come first served.  Those people get to hunt elk this year, 2009.  Next year, the 50% who had a tag in 2008 and didn't get one in 2009, they get a tag for 2010 and the 2009 guys don't get to hunt.  That way a guy knows he will get a tag every other year and can plan for it with his buddies for elk camp.  There will be a longer season and every one will be happier as there are 50% less people in the woods.

[elksnout]

This topic gets danced around all the time. Too few elk, too many hunters on not enough public land. Is it any wonder why guys buy into private hunting clubs ? I know those who do and for them it's not a snob type issue. They just love to hunt and want a quality hunt and grew tired about what this threads subject is. I rifle hunt and feel the season is too long and I think again this year they are adding another day here on the west side. We hunt in an area where in a average year seven out of one hundred gets a bull. But we have fun. Ours is a large camp and we talk about this subject alot. I'am the only one who would support a permit only season out of the eight to ten guys who come to elk camp each fall. Only a few of us stay through the second weekend. So this makes sense that coming to elk camp is more important to them then getting an elk I think. And maybe that's what our game department hears the most of. But to keep adding days when in fact we should have shorter seasons makes no sense to me. Leave the seasons alone.

[colockumelk]

It is fine just the way it is.  The WDFW sets the seasons lengths based on the average amount of time it takes to harvest the average amount of animals the WDFW desires to harvest.  Which is why on average the success % for all three user groups is about the same for general season hunts.  Usually around 10%.  This is why the bow season is much longer than the modern season because it is much harder to harvest an animal and takes longer to reach the 10% success rate.  Where the rifle guys it only takes a week. 

As of right now the harvest split between the three user groups is equal and the goals are being met.  If you look at the special permit success % for the Yakima and Colockum GMU's they are Modern 43%, ML 40% and Archery is 20%.  This is how they set the special permit levels.  This is why although there are far fewer archery guys, they still have almost as many and sometimes more bull permits in the Yakima areas.  Because their branch bull special permit success rate is so low. 

Like others have said if the modern guys were allowed to hunt late in December or during the rut our elk herds would be decimated within two years.  You guys would have two really awsome years but then the elk seasons would be shut down.  And it would go back to permit only like it used to be back in the 40's and 50's.   

[Jerbear]

What a crock of s**t from a bunch of selfish *censored*s.  Number one is the simple fact that the modern rifleman carried this program long before you clowns came along.  And yes Clockum we used to hunt well in December and never devastated the herds.  I feel that you bowhunters should go back to long bow or recurve.  You muzzi people should go back to traditional flintlock or percussion. The inlines should not be allowed. 
Why is it that every time you get something, then something should be taken away from us.  And Clockum it was not by permit only in 40's and 50's.  You went and bought a tag.  It said elk tag.  It was good anywhere in the state.  I lived and hunted during those times and have the tags to prove it. If you don't know the facts, don't make them up. You had to be drawn for cow tags, I will give you that.
This chicken s**t  game dept wants us divided. They don't want to admit their failure to maintain the herds.  Yes the off reservation hunting by the Indian tribes have taken its toll.  Poaching seems to be growing.  And not much happens to those that are caught.
Some of the posts on this thread are for pure selfish reasons.  Then some are not the truth. 
A closing note.  Last late archery hunt in this area, 388, I had a proud father brag that his son, who was bow hunting for the first time, had stuck 7 deer.  They didn't get any of them, but wait until next year.  Maybe instead of plotting against us Modern Rifle users, you might try to clean up your sport.
Don't try to humor me.  I'm pissed.

[ICEMAN]

Hey trailer, Jerbear has earned the right to be pissed. Read his post.

I feel that Jerbears point is that many guys just want the best opportunities saved for them selves, period, screw the other guys... who can be portrayed as selfish in these cases?

My traditional way to hunt is with rifle. Because of this, I receive the least desirable season setting year after year.

Every year I elk hunt, I creep within yards of mature cows. If I switched to bow hunting, I would be sticking a cow each year. Are we to believe that if all the rifle guys switched to bow hunting, that the herd would not be decimated, the bow hunt destroyed?

Do bow guys want all rifle guys to switch? You want this?  By encouraging and allowing rifle guys to get the shaft, you may get just this, way more rifle guys trying out their new bows... in the woods with the regular bow hunters, squeezing away on those neato hoochie mama's and bugling away!


I have argued for years that what would be most fair is to rotate the user groups thru each season. Go ahead and limit the seasons to allow this rotation.

All I would ask for is equal time to hunt as other user groups.


And, sorry to the bow guys for using their hunt as my example, please try to see my point....

[colockumelk]

Rifle guys get a shorter season because it takes them less amount of time to reach their portion of the harvest pie.

For example it takes 30 days for the bow guys to reach around a 10% success rate.  It only takes 9 days for the rifle guys to reach a ten percent success rate.  If the season was extended then too many animals would die.  It isn't being biased it's just math and science.  It takes X amount of time to reach Y amount of animals harvested.  Plain and simple. 

Jerbear sorry for the mistake.  Your right it was permit for cows only.  I was just going off of stories my grandfather and uncles have told me and I misunderstood them.  Also FYI the reason that the herds were not decimated with a rifle season during December is because there was less than half the amount of elk hunters out there.  Also there was far less road access because you didn't have a million ATV's out there.  In todays modern world with the vast amount of elk hunters out there and the vast amount of road access our herds would indeed get decimated if the regular season was in December. 

Rifle guys get the less desirable part of the season because they use MODERN METHODS.  If rifle hunters don't like the season then they can hunt with a bow or a ML.  It was mentioned at the meeting in Ellensburg that "be carefull what you wish for.  The more modern the bows and ML's get the shorter the seasons will be."  Which has happened.  The archery guys are losing about a week of their season.  A while ago the ML guys lost their late season.That being said if you modern guys want a more lucrative part of the season then you should also have further restrictions added to your method.  Such as if you want to hunt during early October then is it fair to still be able to use the modern methods or should you start getting technological restriction put on you.  Such as single shot rifles, not scopes, range finders etc???

We are all given a choice when we select our hunting method.  There are pros and cons.  If we want to utilize modern methods and thus an easier hunt then we have to accept the fact that our season will be shorter and will not be during the most favorable time period.  If we want to hunt during the rut etc. then we have to be willing to hunt using a restrictive method such as a bow or ML. 

We cant have our cake and eat it to if we wish to still have a good quality elk herd.  It's one or the other.

[elksnout]

Good God !! Piss and moan, piss and moan. Jimmy got a bigger hunk of cake than me ! What the hell does it matter ? We are only allowed one elk a year, does it really make a difference what type of tag you put on it ? Laser rangefinders, inline muzzleloaders, bi pods mounted on rifles with barrels long enough to shoot from here to Seattle. ATV's, GPS's, bows that shoot groups as tight as a rifle shot off of sandbags. Hi Tech clothing, yada, yada, yada.... We all love to hunt elk, period. I bowhunted for many years. It's no push over, I don't care how many Primos tapes you watch. Not quite like the movies guys. I now rifle hunt. I restrict my shots to only high percentage and more years than not come home with an unfilled tag. The same guy who sticks seven deer with an arrow is the same guy who takes crappy shots with a rifle and so on. Look in the mirror. Is what you see what you want to be ? Odds are that I've offended some people and for that I'am sorry. I've watched this post and many like it and just couldn't take it any longer to not voice my opinion on something that I love so much and spend so much time doing.

[Crunchy]

The extra days they just got is plenty.  I will be intersted to see what the harvest total for this year will be for rifle hunters.

[Diehard0123]

Its a tough trade off but in reality it works, I am a MF hunter and we do get some advantages that archery and ML dont, such as longer distance shots and multiple shots in some situations.  Archery and ML in almost all cases get only one shot.  As far as harvest records go, I think the state of our elk populations speak for themselves right now.  Just look at the native harvests with MF.  There are many topics on the subject here that you should read if you havent already.