5.56 on Blacktail

[Cab]

Just wondering if anyone has used 5.56 on blacktail before. I'm not talking long distance I'm talking about 200 or less, most likely 100 yards and under. I'm just curious as I just built a custom AR this year and would like to hunt with it but I want to be as ethical as possible(I have other firearms I can always use). I know guys in the south do this as they have much smaller deer overall and didn't know if other have tried it here.

[h20hunter]

I believe it is plenty capable but under the states current rules would not be legal. Isn't it .243 or bigger on big game?

[Bob33]

I believe it is plenty capable but under the states current rules would not be legal. Isn't it .243 or bigger on big game?

Yes; officially "24 caliber".

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-414-020

[kirkl]

I believe it is plenty capable but under the states current rules would not be legal. Isn't it .243 or bigger on big game?

Yes, .24 cal (6mm) is minimum for deer

[OutHouse]

I believe it is plenty capable but under the states current rules would not be legal. Isn't it .243 or bigger on big game?

I think that's right. I think the regs might say 6mm or larger but pretty sure 6mm is a .243.

[Cab]

Thanks guys! I didn't see that, I only saw the part about handguns in the big game pamphlet. Good to know

[h20hunter]

Get a 300 blackout upper. Done deal.

[Cab]

Get a 300 blackout upper. Done deal.

I like the way you think! 

[CP]

Or a 6.5 Grendel, 350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM …

Maybe one or each.

[j_h_nimrod]

Purely for educational purposes, since <6mm is the minimum in this state, a .223 works great if prudent judgement (range, angle, game, etc.) is used while hunting.  Killed my first Sitka Blacktail with a Mini-14 and many after. I would say a large percentage of late season beach hunting in SE AK is carried out with an AR in .223. A .17 Rem does great things to a deers brain as well!

[CP]

Is 6mm legal?

6mm = 0.23622 caliber


WAC 220-414-020

  Unlawful methods for hunting—Firearms.
(1) It is unlawful to hunt any big game with:
(a) A fully automatic firearm.
(b) A centerfire cartridge less than 22 caliber for cougar.
(c) A centerfire cartridge less than 24 caliber for any other big game.

[bobcat]

6mm = .243

[Woodchuck]

.243 and 6mm push the same size projectile. Sort of like a .308 and a 30/06.

[Backstrap]

Killed a lot of deer with a 222, in Oregon where it’s legal.

[jeffro]

I have contemplated using my .458 Socom....
But I want to bring home some meat! 

Ultimate brush gun though....

[hunter399]

I wish it was legal , But it's not.
All kinds of wildcat calibers to get around it.
If your help bent on a 223 case.
This year I went with a ar10, 308 and just ditch the ar15.
I can build an ar10 for the same price as most quality ar15.

[Rob]

Get a 300 blackout upper. Done deal.

I like the way you think! 

I took a small blacktail with a subsonic 300 BO this year.  Dropped like a sack of flour.

Used the Lehigh Max expansion bullet as recommended by some folks on this forum. 

Sub-sonic makes it a 150 yard or less gun (for me anyway).  I found an 85 yard zero had me +/- 2 inches to 100 yards.  Then it falls like a rock from there.
-5.8 at 120
-14 inches at 150
-34 inches at 200
-63 inches at 250
-101 inches at 300!

[Taco280AI]

I know a guy who uses the 22 Creedmore on deer out of state, 60something grain maybe... but not in WA

[Goshawk]

The 300 Whisper can be ok at very short ranges. I've taken deer with it and have seen deer taken with it.  As long as you realize out of a rifle it's just about a ballistic twin to the 357mag out of a rifle your ok.
There are a LOT better rounds for hunting with an AR15 that have all the power and accuracy you would ever need from the 6.5 Grendel to the 50 Beowulf.  When the time comes to pull the trigger or release the arrow it's all about shot placement and confidence. Work in your known range limitations and be responsible about the shots you take, and you should be just fine.  The wildcard is animal movement, brush, less than ideal angles of impact, and the unexpected miss that hits a leg bone on the way to the lungs rather than a good rib shot. Add the possibility of a bear in the mix and you'll see there are much better choices for Western Washington Big Game hunting than the little 300.

[Jonathan_S]

7mm TCU on an AR 15 has tempted me before

[TooTallMike]

Get a 300 blackout upper. Done deal.

I like the way you think! 

I took a small blacktail with a subsonic 300 BO this year.  Dropped like a sack of flour.

Used the Lehigh Max expansion bullet as recommended by some folks on this forum. 

Sub-sonic makes it a 150 yard or less gun (for me anyway).  I found an 85 yard zero had me +/- 2 inches to 100 yards.  Then it falls like a rock from there.
-5.8 at 120
-14 inches at 150
-34 inches at 200
-63 inches at 250
-101 inches at 300!

Not trying to hijack the thread but can you expand (see what I did there?) on your load data for that round?
Also to the OP.
Swap out your barrel and headspace is for 300blk and use some Barnes 110 TacTX and any deer inside 300yds is SMOKED with the proper placement

[wreckerman5288]

If one was hunting somewhere it was legal, 5.56 loadings with quality hunting bullets in the 70-77 grain loadings would be very effective on any deer at ranges beyond what most people should realistically be shooting anyways. I have quite a bit of Target and varmit experience with high B.C. .223 and 5.56 loads and when used with a 1-7 twist barrel are a completely different animal from 55 grain cheapo and varmit ammo. They hit harder, shoot flatter at range, and buck wind way better.

Having lots of experience with the platform and enjoying building them, naturally I wanted to hunt with an AR15 and hunting in Washington I had to go with an alternate caliber. I ended up with .300 Blackout  because of cost, availability of parts, quality factory hunting ammo, and ability to reload from 5.56 brass. It is way cheaper to get in the .300 Blackout game than the 6.5 Grendel for example, which was a big deal to me at the time I built the upper. I built an upper identical to my main 5.56 upper outside of chambering and gas system length. I use the same scope on the two uppers, I just swap over to the .300 for hunting season. I shoot thousands of rounds through the setup in 5.56 every year and about 10-20 of .300, but the .300 feels the same and aside from trajectory shoots the same, so I am very comfortable with it.

The .300 is not very powerful and it's trajectory is not very flat. However,  at 300 yards Barnes Vor-Tx 110 grain factory ammo hits as hard as a .357 Magnum does at the muzzle and has a manageable 7 MOA of drop. I have killed both bucks I've shot at with this setup, a good sized 4 point mule deer buck at 214 yards and a sprinting 4x4 whitetail at 30 yards. The mule deer was a single lung shot, complete pass through, ran 90 yards bleeding heavily. I shot the whitetail twice, first a lung shot, followed quickly by a shoulder shot. The shoulder shot broke through both shoulders and was recovered under the far side hide. The lung shot yawed sharply and was recovered in the meat of the far side rear quarter. The buck dropped immediately from the shoulder shot.

With an accurate rifle, an understanding of your trajectory, a decent optic with a solution for managing 21 inches of drop,  and the Barnes 110 grain Vor-TX  I would have no reservations about using it on deer in out to 300 yards.

Is it the best deer hunting cartridge, that depends on how you hunt deer. I hunt almost entirely open country but most deer I've ever shot have been between 30 and 200 yards and they are frequently running. The .300 Blackout AR15 works perfectly for that.

[BKMFR]

I have used a 6x45(6mm/223) for years. Mine is built on a small Sako action, 20" light Lilja fluted barrel, Lone wolf composite stock, with a 4.5x14 Leupold. Tack driver,super low recoil, nice lightweight package, and it works!

[Goshawk]

7mm TCU on an AR 15 has tempted me before

If you go there for hunting, remember  you'll need to choose a bullet that will expand and perform and a lot lower velocity than what most 7mm rifle rounds generate.  You might consider the 6.8 spc or 6.5 grendel. Both are really very well balanced for the AR15 platform and are game capable without it being a stunt.

[Jonathan_S]

Yupp. Same as anything else, get the best bullet for the intended use. 7mm is a tougher one than the 6x45 I have. Lots of options for 6mm that expand at lower velocity 

[hunter399]

I've been hunting with 25/45 for couple years,but bought my barrel from black hole weaponry ,20 in.Which I can load pretty hot anything from a 75 grain to 110 grain.
But just this summer before the gun laws passed,i went ahead and got ar10 in 308.Put the lower together for about 300 dollar then bought a upper from from bear creek arsenal for 300 dollars.So a 600 dollar rifle shoots great.bear creek upper comes with bolt and charging handle,I spent another 100 on drop in trigger,50 on adjustable gas block ,50 on upgraded extractor, But it shoots good right out of the box,I just up graded parts I thought where cheap,to have light trigger,reliably in my rifle.

[Rob]

Get a 300 blackout upper. Done deal.

I like the way you think! 

I took a small blacktail with a subsonic 300 BO this year.  Dropped like a sack of flour.

Used the Lehigh Max expansion bullet as recommended by some folks on this forum. 

Sub-sonic makes it a 150 yard or less gun (for me anyway).  I found an 85 yard zero had me +/- 2 inches to 100 yards.  Then it falls like a rock from there.
-5.8 at 120
-14 inches at 150
-34 inches at 200
-63 inches at 250
-101 inches at 300!

Not trying to hijack the thread but can you expand (see what I did there?) on your load data for that round?
Also to the OP.
Swap out your barrel and headspace is for 300blk and use some Barnes 110 TacTX and any deer inside 300yds is SMOKED with the proper placement

no Problem.  All the back and forth can be found here:
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,242391.0.html

Short answer is I used 9 grains of lii gun.  I plan to do some testing with other powders over the winter to see if I get more consistent velocities.

[The Big Game Hunter]

7mm TCU on an AR 15 has tempted me before

If you go there for hunting, remember  you'll need to choose a bullet that will expand and perform and a lot lower velocity than what most 7mm rifle rounds generate.  You might consider the 6.8 spc or 6.5 grendel. Both are really very well balanced for the AR15 platform and are game capable without it being a stunt.

I agree. Both the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are very good on medium game at short to moderate range. I'd personally lean towards the 6.8 SPC, but that's just me.
https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-8-spc-vs-6-5-grendel/

[konradcountry]

The 300 Whisper can be ok at very short ranges. I've taken deer with it and have seen deer taken with it.  As long as you realize out of a rifle it's just about a ballistic twin to the 357mag out of a rifle your ok.

You must be talking about subsonic. At supersonic it isn't even close. Energy is around twice as much.

There are a LOT better rounds for hunting with an AR15 that have all the power and accuracy you would ever need from the 6.5 Grendel to the 50 Beowulf. 

It depends on what you want. The 50 Beowulf has a huge arc compared to Blackout or Grendel. All AR15 cartridges are capped by the design of the gun so it is really a game of tradeoffs. Grendel has improvements over Blackout but it is more expensive if you are switching from 223 since it requires more than a barrel swap.

Add the possibility of a bear in the mix and you'll see there are much better choices for Western Washington Big Game hunting than the little 300.

I think you should refresh yourself on the supersonic tables. Blackout is closer to a 30/30 at 100 yards than a 44 mag carbine and no one would call that little. I shot a deer last year with a Barnes 110 and the heart exploded. There are a lot of AR cartridges but I don't think you can beat the value of Blackout. Quality barrels cost a lot less and ammo prices are between 223 and 308. All AR15 cartridges are limited on range to where you should switch to a bolt or AR10 if you really need to go further.

[Goshawk]

Or a 6.5 Grendel, 350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM …

Maybe one or each.

Any of the above are a much superior choice to the 300 Whisper.

[konradcountry]

Or a 6.5 Grendel, 350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM …

Maybe one or each.

Any of the above are a much superior choice to the 300 Whisper.

Why do you keep calling it 300 Whisper? We are talking about 300 Blackout. They are close but not the same.

300 Blackout comes in both sub and super. You seem to think he is limited to subsonic bullets.

[j_h_nimrod]

I really like the 300 Blackout. One of the better cartridges on the AR-15 platform. I would not say any except the Grendel were superior for deer and it is all situational, regardless. The 350 Legend I think falls short though.

On an AR-10 I thought the 45 Raptor might be fun

[Goshawk]

Or a 6.5 Grendel, 350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM …

Maybe one or each.

Any of the above are a much superior choice to the 300 Whisper.

Why do you keep calling it 300 Whisper? We are talking about 300 Blackout. They are close but not the same.

300 Blackout comes in both sub and super. You seem to think he is limited to subsonic bullets.

The loads on both are the same. The Whisper was first developed for subsonic and supersonic. The blackout has a longer chamber but the cases and load are identical.  The renaming of the Whisper or 308/221 to Blackout was marketing only; not performance.

[CastleRocker]

As far as 300 Whisper vs. 300 AAC Blackout being "not the same"...I used a Whisper shooting handgun silhouette matches a loonng time ago.  I have a Blackout upper now, and use my old Whisper dies to reload for it.  It's about the same amount of difference between the 556 and the the 223, or the .264 LBC vs. the 6.5 Grendel.  Yes they are "different", but only in SAAMI spec, and will shoot out of the same chamber.

Back to the subject...Kodiak Blacktails don't like the Mini 14, and neither do Caribou.  With a well placed shot, they will fall.  That being said, the only reason I used it was, that's what I had at the time.  If it was legal in this state, I wouldn't use it.

[Goshawk]

Oddly enough, the WDFW allows you to use the 223 for Cougar but not deer.

[Goshawk]

Here's the difference.  Regarding performance they are identical. Sort of like arguing over which is better, the 30/30 or the 30 Winchester Center Fire.  I use the name assigned by the guy who first commercialized the round, J.D. Jones.  The blackout is nothing more than the Whisper rebranded and standardized.  Yes, I own one. Yes I've used them on deer and coyotes. No, I've never been impressed with their performance compared to the 308, 270, or other accepted big game rounds. Pushing a .308 bullet a lot slower than what the 30/30 does just does not impress me. Are they fun? You bet! Do they have a place? Absolutely, with the same limitations as any lower power round in the deer woods has. 

[konradcountry]

No, I've never been impressed with their performance compared to the 308, 270, or other accepted big game rounds.

Well none of the AR15 rounds are going to compare to a 308 or 270. That's like saying that a 3030 doesn't compare to a 308. Well yea but they are still great for hunting within proper range.

I also don't see why you keep putting the 300 blackout down when you clearly aren't familiar with the ballistics.

You compared it to a 357 out of a carbine which is completely false. The energy of a hornady 110 has 1071 ft pounds of energy at 100 yards while a 357 in a carbine has around 715. That's like saying 357 and 44 are the same when it comes to energy. It just isn't true.

You then called the 350 legend superior when it is designed for straightwall states and falls from the sky at 200 yards.

All the AR hunting rounds have trade-offs. Blackout excels at value and in short barrels. There is no do-all AR round.

[Jonathan_S]

RE: "no do all AR-15" i can't figure why the 6x45 isn't more popular. It's about as close as it gets to all purpose for the -15

[Goshawk]

It's all about the marketing.

If it was standardized by an ammo company and renamed "SS6" for something elite sounding like Silent Sniper 6mm, it would be the round to have. 
Remington came out with a nothing less than Great AR15 round called the "30 Remington AR" that was smoking hot for an AR15 frame, then through the efforts of not releasing any brass or load data managed to kill off their own efforts.  Someone in Remington fell out of favor with the boss!

The full length necked up 223 to 6mm, 6.5mm, 25cal, 7mm, 30cal (my favorite) and finally the 32caliber all are capable rounds that do better on larger game than the .223.  The 223 or 5.56 was never intended or designed to be a big game round.

Back to your observation. The 223/6mm was very popular on the shooting benches at one time till the 6mm PPC showed up.  Olympic arms made a 6mm PPC  AR15 that never really took off since giving up magazine capacity almost never appeals to the SUW (sport utility weapon) crowd.

Either way, they are fun to play with!