Thoughts on subsonic 300 Blackout for deer hunting

[Rob]

I have a chance to hunt Blacktail (likely Doe) at a location where the landowner is not comfortable with most rifles due to line of sight/backstop issues with neighboring property.

I have a 300 blackout that he is comfortable with me using as long as it is shooting the sub-sonic heavy bullets.

My question is:  what do folks think minimums are for efficient kills on deer with a slow subsonic bullet?

Some stats:
300 Blackout on AR platform
MV:  1050
Bullet: 220 grain Sierra Gamepro round nose
BC: .31

Given the slow MV, I think bullet construction is likely irrelevant - there will be no significant expansion of a bullet at sub 1,000 fps velocities.  They will essentially be acting like solids or FMJ.

My thinking is, that it is probably fine to 75 yards, but anything beyond that is not good enough from an energy perspective (not to mention that the bullet would be dropping like a brick)

Here is a table I threw together

[Stein]

50 yards looks OK, 75 is already looking a bit sketchy.

What about just using a muzzleloader or shotgun with slugs?

[h20hunter]

I agree and the lack of bullet exp would concern me. What I mean is without exp you of course limit trauma and energy transfer.  I would expect an in.....maybe not an in and out. Are the neighbors friendly or likely to make a fuss if you track outside of said property? I normally would not advocate a head shot but in this case I would be likely to make sure I'm 50 yards or less and take the brain shot.

[birdshooter1189]

Using that same bullet in a full load 300 win mag would be about 2650 fps at the muzzle, and would drop to 1026fps at 800 yds.  From there on out your data matches the win mag.

So a 300 yd shot for you would be like a 1100yd shot with a win mag.  I've seen videos of people taking longer shots than that with a winmag.

Keeping in mind that you won't get the same bullet expansion as you would at 2000+fps, pick shots that you are comfortable with and go for it.

[JohnVH]

Do you reload? They make a subsonic hunting bullet, made to expand at the silly slow speeds of a sub.

[Rob]

I agree and the lack of bullet exp would concern me. What I mean is without exp you of course limit trauma and energy transfer.  I would expect an in.....maybe not an in and out. Are the neighbors friendly or likely to make a fuss if you track outside of said property? I normally would not advocate a head shot but in this case I would be likely to make sure I'm 50 yards or less and take the brain shot.

Friendly for tracking for sure.  They just don't want bullets in their houses (not that I would let that happen in any case - but perception is important).

I have killed many animals with solids - however they have all been with high power big-bore firearms, not slow bullets.  I too expect an in, without expansion or exit.

I think I can make 50 yards work.

[Rob]

50 yards looks OK, 75 is already looking a bit sketchy.

What about just using a muzzleloader or shotgun with slugs?

ML, Bow and slug gun are all options.

There will be two of us hunting - One will use the ML, and my slug gun just is not as accurate as I would like.  I think I would need to play with some different loads.

[Rob]

Using that same bullet in a full load 300 win mag would be about 2650 fps at the muzzle, and would drop to 1026fps at 800 yds.  From there on out your data matches the win mag.

So a 300 yd shot for you would be like a 1100yd shot with a win mag.  I've seen videos of people taking longer shots than that with a winmag.

Keeping in mind that you won't get the same bullet expansion as you would at 2000+fps, pick shots that you are comfortable with and go for it.

That is a really interesting way to look at it...

[Rob]

Do you reload? They make a subsonic hunting bullet, made to expand at the silly slow speeds of a sub.

Great question! I did some poking earlier and did not see any (admittedly I did not spend a bunch of time looking)

[BULLBLASTER]

Using that same bullet in a full load 300 win mag would be about 2650 fps at the muzzle, and would drop to 1026fps at 800 yds.  From there on out your data matches the win mag.

So a 300 yd shot for you would be like a 1100yd shot with a win mag.  I've seen videos of people taking longer shots than that with a winmag.

Keeping in mind that you won't get the same bullet expansion as you would at 2000+fps, pick shots that you are comfortable with and go for it.

I don’t think anyone’s taking 1100 yard shots with that bullet.

[Rob]

Bullet aside, I think the comparison is valid.  if a given bullet drops to 1050 fps in a 300 WM at 800 yards, and you load the same bullet in a 300 BO with a MV of 1050, then the "kill power" of the two are essentially the same in terms of performance.

People do take shots at the 800 to 900 yard distance with a 300WM (Not me!) and they are confident in making a clean kill. 

[h20hunter]

@CP

I think CP has done some low velocity testing in this. Not sure ifvhe has put the smack down though.

[BULLBLASTER]

Bullet aside, I think the comparison is valid.  if a given bullet drops to 1050 fps in a 300 WM at 800 yards, and you load the same bullet in a 300 BO with a MV of 1050, then the "kill power" of the two are essentially the same in terms of performance.

People do take shots at the 800 to 900 yard distance with a 300WM (Not me!) and they are confident in making a clean kill.

I can assure those type of guys aren’t using a round nose turd of a bullet at that kind of range. So that comparison really does nothing.

I don’t have or haven’t shot a blackout but there are ammo out there meant for hunting that supposedly will expand at lower velocity.

[Rob]

Bullet aside, I think the comparison is valid.  if a given bullet drops to 1050 fps in a 300 WM at 800 yards, and you load the same bullet in a 300 BO with a MV of 1050, then the "kill power" of the two are essentially the same in terms of performance.

People do take shots at the 800 to 900 yard distance with a 300WM (Not me!) and they are confident in making a clean kill.

I can assure those type of guys aren’t using a round nose turd of a bullet at that kind of range. So that comparison really does nothing.

I don’t have or haven’t shot a blackout but there are ammo out there meant for hunting that supposedly will expand at lower velocity.

Totally agree, but the bullet is somewhat irrelevant to the comparison isn't it?  The point being if you loaded up a 220 grain Berger match bullet to be subsonic at the muzzle and shot it out of a blackout, and loaded it up in a 300 WM so that it hit 1050 fps at 800 yards, the ballistics, energy, bullet drop, etc will basically be the same from that point on, right?

i.e. 850 yards in the WM = 50 yards in the Blackout...

(not being difficult, just discussing it!)

[BULLBLASTER]

Bullet aside, I think the comparison is valid.  if a given bullet drops to 1050 fps in a 300 WM at 800 yards, and you load the same bullet in a 300 BO with a MV of 1050, then the "kill power" of the two are essentially the same in terms of performance.

People do take shots at the 800 to 900 yard distance with a 300WM (Not me!) and they are confident in making a clean kill.

I can assure those type of guys aren’t using a round nose turd of a bullet at that kind of range. So that comparison really does nothing.

I don’t have or haven’t shot a blackout but there are ammo out there meant for hunting that supposedly will expand at lower velocity.

Totally agree, but the bullet is somewhat irrelevant to the comparison isn't it?  The point being if you loaded up a 220 grain Berger match bullet to be subsonic at the muzzle and shot it out of a blackout, and loaded it up in a 300 WM so that it hit 1050 fps at 800 yards, the ballistics, energy, bullet drop, etc will basically be the same from that point on, right?

i.e. 850 yards in the WM = 50 yards in the Blackout...

(not being difficult, just discussing it!)

yes the bullet moving th same speed is obviously going the same speed but that is a pointless comparison that doesn’t achieve anything.