He speaks the truth

[Sitka_Blacktail]

https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/hunting/finding-a-middle-ground-on-wolves-and-wolf-management/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email

[Buckhunter82]

Can't wait until the wolves work their way West so you can experience the "Truth" at your back door.

[JimmyHoffa]

from the article:

“As a hunter,” another reader asked, “why would you even want them around?”

My answer is, because hunting to me is more than meat in the freezer.

I have heard that one, and the "it's the hunt, not the harvest."
Bugs me to hear that kind of stuff.  Like the WDFW providing 'opportunity'.  Maybe this guy should just take a camera on a hike if he's not interested meat (or butchering, cooking, packing it out, showing the kids how to skin it, bleaching the skull, etc.)
How many hunts during time off work, burning fuel and tearing up gear before that guy decides he finally does want a little elk or venison on his fork?
In the what makes a good elk partner thread, I'd say he probably wouldn't be on my list.

[Onewhohikes]

He speaks no truth

[TheStovePipeKid]

They keep saying wolves are not a real threat to humans. Tell that to the Russians.

[buglebrush]

"He speaks the truth"

Spoken like someone who doesn't live where wolves have proven he's full of ####!

[257 Wby Mag]

Rick, I see you're as clueless as you were 20 years ago.. I happen to know Ben, conversed with him numerous times, about a quality tag I drew I drew in Montana. Ben is a gent that thinks packing a rifle in the woods staring at the sky is hunting. Ben can't kill a 140" mulie yearly as resident in Montana yearly. I've all year long to do nature walks, when killin  season comes along, that's what I do. A ( hunt) isn't complete without a kill.... A walk in the woods during huntin season without a kill, is just a walk.

A (hunt) isn't complete without a kill....

[wolfbait]

Rick, I see you're as clueless as you were 20 years ago.. I happen to know Ben, conversed with him numerous times, about a quality tag I drew I drew in Montana. Ben is a gent that thinks packing a rifle in the woods staring at the sky is hunting. Ben can't kill a 140" mulie yearly as resident in Montana yearly. I've all year long to do nature walks, when killin  season comes along, that's what I do. A ( hunt) isn't complete without a kill.... A walk in the woods during huntin season without a kill, is just a walk.

A (hunt) isn't complete without a kill....

Hunting without killing is the "new age" way, like protecting predators only makes you a better hunter, or wolves balance the ecosystem, it's the habitat etc. etc..

 Brainwashing  those who don't have a clue, which the USFWS, WDFW and fake environmentalist have been doing for quite some time now, some even trail onto H-W and try, but it is too late in the game, their wolf magic is tainted...

[no.cen.wa]

Well, I sum it up like this"THE ONLY GOOD WOLF IS A DEAD WOLF"
nough said

[timberfaller]

Plus 2 on "ask the Russians"!

History repeats itself because idiots refuse to learn from it!!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Rick, I see you're as clueless as you were 20 years ago.. I happen to know Ben, conversed with him numerous times, about a quality tag I drew I drew in Montana. Ben is a gent that thinks packing a rifle in the woods staring at the sky is hunting. Ben can't kill a 140" mulie yearly as resident in Montana yearly. I've all year long to do nature walks, when killin  season comes along, that's what I do. A ( hunt) isn't complete without a kill.... A walk in the woods during huntin season without a kill, is just a walk.

A (hunt) isn't complete without a kill....

Funny stuff.....   I've lived and hunted half my life in Alaska. I know all about hunting around predators.  They have never stopped me from hunting or from being successful.  (Although I have lost a couple deer I shot to Brownies) But lack of access has. So I have found new places to hunt and most of them are in the middle of wolf country. And darned if I haven't figured out how to hunt and kill animals there too.

According to you, well over half the hunters around haven't been hunting because they didn't kill anything this year.  Some of them haven't because they held out for trophy animals. More power to them for making things more challenging. But it hardly means they weren't hunting.  Maybe some of them could only get a few days to hunt. I'm sure they were still hunting when they were in the woods even though they may not have scored.  Others choose archery or blackpowder or sidearms to make things more challenging.  Not everyone is a kill at all costs, or it wasn't hunting, kinda person.

But lets look at what Ben actually said.  He acknowledges that they are serious predators and that they can wreak havoc on a local level. And that they need to be heavily managed. He has no problem with them being hunted or trapped. I agree with all of that.  He also acknowledged that they can be a problem for ranchers and other people with animals such as pets. He also says that problem wolves need to be killed. I agree with that and also believe ranchers and others should be reimbursed for any losses.

He also points out that the bottom line for hunting is habitat and access.  You gotta have the habitat to grow herds and with growing populations of people, habitat is shrinking and so is access with land being bought up and posted no hunting or with timber companies selling access and limiting the numbers of hunters they allow on their property. Another thing he didn't mention was living in a State where voters can vote out legitimate methods of taking animals that help game departments manage predators such as hound hunting and trapping.

Ben is far from some dew eyed Greenie who thinks hunting is an abomination and all animals live in peace like a Disney movie. He's certainly not saying leave wolves to their own devices.

[pc]

My 2 cents,
I think he leaves out a few important points:

1. The folks (Hunters & Ranchers) that did not want the wolves here were lied too .
2. Multiple Org's with loads of money brought law suits against the Feds to keep them on the Endangered Species list with the sole purpose/and knowledge of what they are/were doing.
3. It was documented that we had wolfs in the Rockies (original ones) and they were told if the big grey's come in they will kill all of the native wolves you have.

The North American Conservation Model is a wonderful success story, but even with this great success there is only a 10% success rate among Elk hunters.
Now hunters pay into the NCM when they buy firearms/bows and accessories to hunt whatever animals are left, but if there are no hunters then we as Americans are not putting money into the conservation cycle. Hence no conservation management of most species.

**We are allowing folks that don't understand how to manage wildlife to direct how wildlife gets managed - and they have no idea what they are doing.

 


"If I ever make it to Africa, would it still be an adventure without lions or leopards?"

[Houndhunter]

Rick, I see you're as clueless as you were 20 years ago.. I happen to know Ben, conversed with him numerous times, about a quality tag I drew I drew in Montana. Ben is a gent that thinks packing a rifle in the woods staring at the sky is hunting. Ben can't kill a 140" mulie yearly as resident in Montana yearly. I've all year long to do nature walks, when killin  season comes along, that's what I do. A ( hunt) isn't complete without a kill.... A walk in the woods during huntin season without a kill, is just a walk.

A (hunt) isn't complete without a kill....

Funny stuff.....   I've lived and hunted half my life in Alaska. I know all about hunting around predators.  They have never stopped me from hunting or from being successful.  (Although I have lost a couple deer I shot to Brownies) But lack of access has. So I have found new places to hunt and most of them are in the middle of wolf country. And darned if I haven't figured out how to hunt and kill animals there too.

You can't compare AK to anywhere in the lower 48. I've hunted in AK a few years, way fewer than you, but we get 500sq miles to hunt in with 9 clients. Guess how many other people we run into out there.... Nobody. Their is literally nothing there except us. Wolves have a place up there no doubt, and it's pretty cool to have them around and see them. But down here we can't support them and expect to have the same game populations. In my opinion the lower 48 is much better of with out wolves in the picture for the sportsman

[buglebrush]

Rick, I see you're as clueless as you were 20 years ago.. I happen to know Ben, conversed with him numerous times, about a quality tag I drew I drew in Montana. Ben is a gent that thinks packing a rifle in the woods staring at the sky is hunting. Ben can't kill a 140" mulie yearly as resident in Montana yearly. I've all year long to do nature walks, when killin  season comes along, that's what I do. A ( hunt) isn't complete without a kill.... A walk in the woods during huntin season without a kill, is just a walk.

A (hunt) isn't complete without a kill....

Funny stuff.....   I've lived and hunted half my life in Alaska. I know all about hunting around predators.  They have never stopped me from hunting or from being successful.  (Although I have lost a couple deer I shot to Brownies) But lack of access has. So I have found new places to hunt and most of them are in the middle of wolf country. And darned if I haven't figured out how to hunt and kill animals there too.

You can't compare AK to anywhere in the lower 48. I've hunted in AK a few years, way fewer than you, but we get 500sq miles to hunt in with 9 clients. Guess how many other people we run into out there.... Nobody. Their is literally nothing there except us. Wolves have a place up there no doubt, and it's pretty cool to have them around and see them. But down here we can't support them and expect to have the same game populations. In my opinion the lower 48 is much better of with out wolves in the picture for the sportsman

 

[257 Wby Mag]

And again, Rick, read the comments here. Your source is a stupid idiot, that treasures “experience “ over  hunting. Please regale the www how Idaho and Montana are like Alaska.... 😂😂

And again, I got all year to hike and camp, when season opens, it’s now time.  If that’s your “kill at all expense” then so be it. Until the , please regale us with your vast out of state exploits....

[sagemd]

He states:
"But wolves have lived beside elk, deer, and moose for hundreds of thousands of years. If wolves were an existential threat to elk or deer, the prey would have disappeared long ago. Wolves have been back in Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana for 30 years and elk and deer hunting is still quite good."

I notice he doesn't talk about the moose population in Montana, Wyoming and what is happening to the moose in Idaho and Washington right now.
He also doesn't talk about no woodland caribo left, that were killed by wolves. None left at all.

[sagemd]

The Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington prey base were never hunted by the grey wolf.
The native wolf (what was left of it) is now gone, do to the grey wolf.

[buckfvr]

Here in mid 121, pre-wolf and post-wolf are truly a night and day difference.  Its like the final card that topples the house.  It appears as though the ungulates are on a continuing decline.  Can we find animals ? Sure, us guys who live here with plenty of time and effort can find them, but the guys who used to be able to jam over for the weekend and get a deer aren't able to pull that off any more with regularity of the past.

The screwballs just think this is nature at its finest, the extremists look at it as a way to end hunting and then take guns.  The wolf plan seems to be working as advertised.  There is no plan to ever hunt them in wa.

[KFhunter]

Here in mid 121, pre-wolf and post-wolf are truly a night and day difference.  Its like the final card that topples the house.  It appears as though the ungulates are on a continuing decline.  Can we find animals ? Sure, us guys who live here with plenty of time and effort can find them, but the guys who used to be able to jam over for the weekend and get a deer aren't able to pull that off any more with regularity of the past.

The screwballs just think this is nature at its finest, the extremists look at it as a way to end hunting and then take guns.  The wolf plan seems to be working as advertised.  There is no plan to ever hunt them in wa.

Wolves will make you a better hunter

[buckfvr]

If I could hunt wolves they would...….

[grundy53]

Here in mid 121, pre-wolf and post-wolf are truly a night and day difference.  Its like the final card that topples the house.  It appears as though the ungulates are on a continuing decline.  Can we find animals ? Sure, us guys who live here with plenty of time and effort can find them, but the guys who used to be able to jam over for the weekend and get a deer aren't able to pull that off any more with regularity of the past.

The screwballs just think this is nature at its finest, the extremists look at it as a way to end hunting and then take guns.  The wolf plan seems to be working as advertised.  There is no plan to ever hunt them in wa.

Wolves will make you a better hunter

You'll have to be a better hunter...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Loup Loup]

To hunt something that is not there, to me, is an exercise in futility.
This is the third season I have not bought deer or elk tags. It is the first season I have not applyed for Sheep, Goat, or moose tags since before we started this points system hokuspokus.
Why pay the state a tax for something they have mismanaged to the point where it is almost nonexistent? Why? Step up boys and speak with your pocketbook. It is, sadly the only voice they listen to.

[Utah]

Well, I sum it up like this"THE ONLY GOOD WOLF IS A DEAD WOLF"
nough said

Well said.  One of only a few hear with a clue.  Calling someone clueless is just barbaric.   

[Skyvalhunter]

He speaks no truth

[ribka]

Great point but you and Ben conveniently leave out , like all pro wolf luvers, the fact that the vast majority of states allow no management of wolves. Anyone shooting a wolf to fend for themselves or livestock is attacked and subjected to long investigations or heavy fines in states where wolf management is outlawed


 Of course that very important fact was left out of the discussion and your response. Comparing wolves in Alaska where they encourage very aggressive management of wolves ( trapping, helicopter gunning, long seasons) to the wolf popualtion in Washington is ridiculous.

Rick, I see you're as clueless as you were 20 years ago.. I happen to know Ben, conversed with him numerous times, about a quality tag I drew I drew in Montana. Ben is a gent that thinks packing a rifle in the woods staring at the sky is hunting. Ben can't kill a 140" mulie yearly as resident in Montana yearly. I've all year long to do nature walks, when killin  season comes along, that's what I do. A ( hunt) isn't complete without a kill.... A walk in the woods during huntin season without a kill, is just a walk.

A (hunt) isn't complete without a kill....

Funny stuff.....   I've lived and hunted half my life in Alaska. I know all about hunting around predators.  They have never stopped me from hunting or from being successful.  (Although I have lost a couple deer I shot to Brownies) But lack of access has. So I have found new places to hunt and most of them are in the middle of wolf country. And darned if I haven't figured out how to hunt and kill animals there too.

According to you, well over half the hunters around haven't been hunting because they didn't kill anything this year.  Some of them haven't because they held out for trophy animals. More power to them for making things more challenging. But it hardly means they weren't hunting.  Maybe some of them could only get a few days to hunt. I'm sure they were still hunting when they were in the woods even though they may not have scored.  Others choose archery or blackpowder or sidearms to make things more challenging.  Not everyone is a kill at all costs, or it wasn't hunting, kinda person.

But lets look at what Ben actually said.  He acknowledges that they are serious predators and that they can wreak havoc on a local level. And that they need to be heavily managed. He has no problem with them being hunted or trapped. I agree with all of that.  He also acknowledged that they can be a problem for ranchers and other people with animals such as pets. He also says that problem wolves need to be killed. I agree with that and also believe ranchers and others should be reimbursed for any losses.

He also points out that the bottom line for hunting is habitat and access.  You gotta have the habitat to grow herds and with growing populations of people, habitat is shrinking and so is access with land being bought up and posted no hunting or with timber companies selling access and limiting the numbers of hunters they allow on their property. Another thing he didn't mention was living in a State where voters can vote out legitimate methods of taking animals that help game departments manage predators such as hound hunting and trapping.

Ben is far from some dew eyed Greenie who thinks hunting is an abomination and all animals live in peace like a Disney movie. He's certainly not saying leave wolves to their own devices.

[sagemd]

  "Wolves will make you a better hunter"

Or more than likely cause allot of hunters with others responsibilities in life to quite hunting.
Or stop new hunters from starting.
If this happens, hunting will not exist.

[buglebrush]

Wolves will make you a better hunter
[/quote]

Actually the sad truth is that Wolves will be the tipping point to take away our hunting.  OTC hunting in the west is becoming the endangered species. 

[ribka]

https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/hunting/finding-a-middle-ground-on-wolves-and-wolf-management/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email

Re examining and a really ridiculous and disingenuous attempt at introducing more wolves  into our area and other western states
. Big failure for sportsmen. Looking forward to outdoor life publishing "All Hunters are now White Supremacist and need to Repent"

[KFhunter]

"Wolves will make you a better hunter" was a sales pitch used by wolf huggers, and on this forum several years ago.  I said it in this thread with snark and dry humor figuring most would know my history of wolf debates and get it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[no.cen.wa]

Maybe one good thing about wolves,,, is, I'll have more ammo if the crazies in black clothes try to bust threw my front door!
"well that will probably get deleted"

[pc]

One more thing that brothers me about this whole wolf debate/BS is the folks that want the wolfs never talk about all of the parasites in wolfs and how they are/can be transferred to humans...