coyote question

[heavy hauler]

i will be using   a foxpro in the next few days and i wonder what call should i use? are yotes mating still?     should i use any of the coyote calls  or just animals in distress?   thanks for any help         ( obviously  i am new to coyote calling)

[stumprat]

I've got a few lately with DSG cottontail, and Lightning Jack. I have never had luck with vocalizations but thats just me.

[coyotemadness]

Yotes should be finished mating by March at the latest. After the pups come out you can try pup distress. I've worked that one a few times.

[JoshT]

It's discouraging to see guys out targeting coyotes this time of year... unless you're a rancher, then I understand. I know it's legal and all... and I know ethics is a personal thing... but shooting coyotes that have pups in the den is really pissing in our own pool.

Don't get me wrong... I love hunting dogs as much as the next guy, usually more... but it's because I love it so much that I give them a break durring rearing season... then get back after them come August.

[deaddog]

Im not trying to start a disagreement with josh here, however there is nothing wrong at all with shooting dogs all year long, Ive seen small and large areas with dogs killed all year and have not seen a decline in their population at all. If you can live with the fact that pups of a killed female will slowly starve to death, shoot em dead. I will admit that these days I give a break and shoot fewer this time of year. Happy dog huntin.

[tlbradford]

Prey distress and pup distress work great this time of year.  Howling will usually send them the other way since they are doing everything they can to avoid confrontation while they are rearing pups. 

I give them a rest mostly this time of year as well.  Shooting a few will not affect the population.  If you let them in close you can tell if it is a wet bitch by the sagging belly and distended teets.  If you do shoot a wet bitch I encourage you to cut open the fallopian tubes, count the bumps (which will tell you how many pups she dropped) backtrack to the den (which should be real close), and dig out and kill the pups.  This is where having a shotgun with #6 shot helps.  When I helped cattle ranchers in central WA, I hunted all year.  Shoot enough females March through July and you will notice a decline in the population.  However, the ones you are killing are usually not the coyotes that are causing damage.  To target the "trouble makers" you need to hunt right next to the feed lots or birthing areas.

[JoshT]

If I "shot a few"... and you "shoot a few"... and madness "shoots a few"... and hauler "shoots a few"... that seems like more than a few to me, but my wife is the one with the math degree.

You can do damage to an area... I've done it... and it took a long time for it to come back. I'm not trying to preach to anyone on this subject... and for some folks there's good reason to hammer on the coyotes this time of year. But, to do it on public land... away from ranches and farms... with solely the intent of getting some killing in... seems a bit selfish to me. I'm not immune from it... I used to do it... and honestly I don't look down on those who do. But it ain't for me... and I encourage folks not to do it...

[telof latzi]

I'm not trying to preach to anyone on this subject...

 

Can anyone tell me when in history ANYONE has been worried about endangering the population of coyotes?  They live EVERYWHERE, they scavenge like crazy, and they reproduce plenty.  There's a reason they are open all year.  The coyote population is in no real danger.

[JoshT]

Shoot'em up then... if that's how you feel. Hey, they're just dogs... they don't deserve any respect... right?

[deaddog]

Shoot'em up then... if that's how you feel. Hey, they're just dogs... they don't deserve any respect... right?

I think you took that out of context josh, a least I hope so. I love dog hunting as do many and I do respect them as I do any animal I hunt, and I have not heard one person  say anything that would suggest they dont, at least on this thread. I respect your position here and would hope you could respect others as well as no one has broken any laws or ethics as far as hunting goes.

[JoshT]

I absolutely respect that right... that's what I said in both posts... to each their own. For a long time I lived by the saying the only good coyote is a dead coyote... I've softened on that possition quite a bit over the past couple of years.

I read a study once that indicated you could kill 70% of the population year after year and have no ill effects on the overall number of coyotes in an area... but my personal experience confirm that is the case. I know I've over-hunted areas... and the population still hasn't rebounded... even after a couple of years. Some folks think that's a good thing... I don't.

Also, with the decreased opportunities to hunt other species... due soley to the WDFW and Indian follies... the coyote has become the go to species for an increasingly large number of outdoorsmen... so I think some sort of concession should be made by those same hunters.

I know, I know... kill a coyote this time of year, and it saves a fawn or two. That argument can be made... and is probably valid in some respect or another. To me personally... the life of one doesn't have greater worth than the other. I suppose if I had a ranch, or a "quality deer management" area... I'd feel different. But, I don't... that's why I limit myself... everyone else can do as they see fit, but I'll encourage anyone who'll listen to take it easy on them this time of year... that's all.

[deaddog]

I think overall you and I are on the same page.

[JoshT]

Usually are...

[Kain]

Maybe I could suggest a compromise.  This is my first year hunting coyotes and I chose to give them a pass this time of year.  My choice was based on the thought of leaving a den full of pups to starve to death.  Just like I wouldnt shoot a bear with cubs or deer with fawns. But I had thought that I could still go calling for them and only shoot the ones with mange try to photo the rest.  Im pretty sure mange is passed on to pups and they dont really have much of a chance either way.  Please correct me if Im wrong on this.  I have heard that as long as you dont shoot at them they dont get educated to calling.  Anyways I wont care if you keep hunting them through the spring its a personal choice.

[jdb]

I dont not target coyotes this time of year however if I encounter them while shed hunting I will shoot them. I enjoy hunting coyotes alot but they do harm the deer populations and I justify it im my mind that I am protecting the deer herd.

[tlbradford]

Couple of different points I want to comment on...

Im pretty sure mange is passed on to pups and they dont really have much of a chance either way.  Please correct me if Im wrong on this.  I have heard that as long as you dont shoot at them they dont get educated to calling.  Anyways I wont care if you keep hunting them through the spring its a personal choice.

Mange will infect the living space of the coyote, especially a den.  If a coyote that is not infected rubs up against the mange parasite it will most likely be infected as well.

You will educate coyotes by calling them and taking pictures.  Anytime you have a prey or vocalization sound that the coyote expects to find food or another coyote, and it turns out to be a human, you have taught them something.  They will be a little more wary when hearing that sound again.  It is very debateable on how much this will effect them in the long term.  You have to think that for every prey sound that turns out to be a human, that they hear 20-50 prey sounds that are actually food.  My belief is that it depends on each individual coyotes natural tendancies to be bold or cautious.  I don't think you can make a blanket statement and say that all coyotes will be more wary when they are called and associate that sound with a human.  That is just my opinion, since I have encountered every type of behavior, from both highly pressured coyotes and those that hardly ever encounter a human.

I read a study once that indicated you could kill 70% of the population year after year and have no ill effects on the overall number of coyotes in an area... but my personal experience confirm that is the case. I know I've over-hunted areas... and the population still hasn't rebounded... even after a couple of years. Some folks think that's a good thing... I don't.

You may be giving yourself a little too much credit here.  There might be several factors that come into play besides over hunting that may give you false conclusions.  They prey species may have decreased during this time, disease may have set in, maybe you just didn't see as many coyotes but they were still there and less vocal, their might have been something that affected pup survival or the litter size in that area...  There are probably too many factors involved to really draw the correct conclusion, and more than likely it is a combination of several things.

I agree with your basic philosophy though, give them a rest if you want to have more to call in the winter.  Of course, I will probably shoot a couple that respond to my turkey calling and if I get bored in the middle of summer I may get out a couple times too.

[JoshT]

Could be... but it seems to me that nothing else has really changed.

I don't think anyone will dissagree though, that killing a couple of dogs with pups in the den will do significant damage to that area's crop for the year... it's like killing 5-10 with one round.

[Kain]

tlbradford,

Good points there.  I think you cold probably get away with taking a picture or two without the coyote "seeing you as a human".  They will more likely get weary when they dont see anything and run off or get your scent and scram.  My camo is pretty good and I have coyotes, bobcats and deer stare right at me not know what I was and lots of times not even know I was there.  Im sure coyotes see a lot of different things when the respond to prey distress sounds, like you said.  They see bears, cougars, bobcats, other coyotes, birds of prey and others.  Most of these they dont get their share or will have to fight for it or scraps.  I dont think calling for coyotes, and then letting them go, would do much harm regarding making coyotes call shy.  But like you said it would really depend on the coyote and the other environmental conditions.  I was just throwing out a suggestion that allows you to get all the excitment of calling and hunting without the risk of killing females with pups in the den.

Again good points.

[deaddog]

Usually are...

[furbearer365]

If you must go then I recommend pup distress all the way, but i would rather see you let them go.  They are hunted all year round and to give it a couple of months wouldn't hurt.  If you kill a female when it is not pup season, technically you did prevent a new litter for next year without the cruel intentions of killing a packs mother.  What I have noticed in this argument is how different the opinions are.  I have found that people who have hunted coyotes religiously for a few years and have a true love for it believe that letting them breed is the way to go.  They don't believe this just to make more for them to shoot, but also for giving respect to that in which they hunt.  Those who haven't hunted them to that extent have the general idea that they are just coyotes and who gives a damn.  There are those few exceptions but this is the general rule that I have found.  At this point, just reading everyones post i can almost tell who falls into what category.  I am hard core for letting them go, because although they do kill deer and elk, they have just as much a part out in the woods as the ones they eat.  For those who are new to hunting them and have the idea that they are just coyotes, I give you a personal challenge to keep hunting them and tell me in 5 years if you still believe they are worthless.

[lamar_hunter]

i would think it would be more fun to call in 5 more mature coyotes next year than kill a den full of pups right now, unless coyotes are effecting business then by all means do what you have to. just my 

[shoot-em-dead]

Lately I've been giving them a rest although it wouldn't matter anyway because the little varmints seem to elude me year round.

[btlsoom]

Right now they are really looking for an easy meal.  Most / some have many mouths to feed so they hunt hard and often.  Use the distress sounds that fit your area.  Cottontail or Jack usually works well.  A fawn bleet is also good at times...these sounds can be made on a howler call if you got one or on most electronic calls.  Good luck..

Randy

[heavy hauler]

well i havent check back here in awhile.thanks for the advice

[deaddog]

Theres a great artical in preditor extream, april issue on this topic. The artical makes good points for both sides but in the end.....well you will have to read it.