Shotgun advice desperately needed

[KillBilly]

He was on at 11 ish today...

[Rob]

I'm sure the gun has long since been purchased, but in case there are others reading this, here is advice a gave a buddy this week who wants to buy a shotgun.  Some background:  He is starting from scratch, and has higher end tastes.  He has not ever been bird hunting before and wants something that would work for trap, upland, waterfowl and possibly turkey (I know...  he wants the magic gun...).

I'm combining a few emails into this post so it may not read too well. 

His opening question was regarding synthetic stock vs a Camo gun.  He said he heard you needed/wanted a camo gun if you wanted to hunt turkey.

My reply:
I prefer the synthetic/blued over a synthetic/Camo style.  However I'm still a wood/blued fan overall.  People have killed turkeys for decades without using camo stocks.  Wood stocks look like... well, wood.  And as you know, the forests are full of wood so it blends in well.  As for a barrel, if you are worried about reflections off of a blued barrel just get some camo gun tape and tape it up for a turkey hunt.  It is cheap, fast and easy to do, and comes right off after the turkey hunt is over. 

Next he asked about some feature on a browning that allows the fast removal of the plug.  Wanted to know if that was important - especially for turkey hunting.

My reply:
I may have taken the plug out when I was in Africa, I don't recall.  but other than that I can't recall having taken the plug out of my gun in 10 years (other than for occasional deep cleaning).  Not a common action to need to take.  I just hunt Turkey with 3 shells.  I have never needed more.  By the time you fire 3 times, the turkey is either dead, or long gone.  Same is true for most bird hunting.  First two shots are usually good, third shot is usually a waste of a shell unless you are finishing off a wounded animal.

My feeling on a lot of features on hunting gear is that they are unnecessary.  They are trying to market features to people and make them feel they have to have it, when they don't need it at all.  For example, for 100 years people hunted with rifles dressed in non-camo clothing.  And they were very successful.  Now, not only does everyone feel the need to go out and buy expensive camo, but they also have to get a pattern that matches the country they are hunting in!  And what do they do?  They buy this expensive camo and cover it up with a solid blaze orange vest.  In my opinion, what is important when dressing for a hunt is first to make sure what you have will keep you comfortable in a wide range of weather conditions (so several non-cotton layers), and second to make sure you break up your outline.  Beyond that, having leaves or stick patterns in you gear is just bonus I guess.  Not sure it really helps at all except possibly in bow hunting.  UV killers and scent control are more important that leaf patterns on your pants.

Same thing with Shotguns.  For 100+ years people have been hunting with simple shotguns very successfully.  Now they have all these fancy rapid break down, special plug removal system, low recoil, fast cycling guns.  They are all really nice.  Really nice.  But the features are not NEEDED to hunt.  I shoot a 250 dollar 12 Ga Remington 870 express.  It has had probably 6,000 rounds put through it since I got it in 1991.  When I got it one of my buddies told me the action would break after 2 boxes of magnum loads.  This year, I had a couple things repaired (a pin that holds the trigger mechanism in kept slipping out while I was on the trap line, and an internal rail that use to be spot-tapped in would fall out after the trigger mechanism was removed making reassembly obnoxious), but they were nice to have repairs, and did not interfere with the operation of the gun.  That is all I have ever spent on it to keep it running.  I have shot quail, geese, ducks, cottontails, rabbits, rattlesnakes, guinea fowl, dove, grouse, turkeys and who knows what else with it.  It has never jammed such that I could not fix it in 5-10 seconds, shoots 3 inch shells, and I regularly shoot in the top couple positions on the line when shooting trap.  Would a nice new gun help me shoot better?  Perhaps a little.  But technique and practice makes a far larger difference than the type of gun you shoot.

Not trying to talk you out of a nice gun at all.  I think you would be happier with one of the ones you are looking at than you would with an 870 like I use.  Just keep all the features in perspective.  Most Features have little to do with connecting the shot with your target.  That is personal skill.

Here is how I would break it all down.

Required features
-A gun that fits you well (Make sure when holding it your arms are not all the way extended, or held in close, not too heavy to hold, etc)
-A dependable action that does not jam (I recommend semi auto or pump).  The four brands we spoke of (Benelli, Beretta, Remington, and Browning) will all be dependable, but some will work better with lighter loads than others.
-Simple operation (some of the semi's are complicated to load/unload or cycle the action.  Have store rep demo for you.  If he/she has trouble with it, you probably will too.)
-Barrel that will take steel shot (newer guns do.  Pre 1990 guns you need to be careful of).
-Ability to take 2 3/4 and 3 inch shells -Smooth trigger action (not as important as it is in a rifle.)

Nice to have features to have
-Ability to take 3.5 inch shells
-Rapid removal of plug
-Easy to disassemble

Personal preference features
-Safety location
-Camo/synthetic/wood stock/Barrel
-rapid cycle of action (some guns advertise they can shoot 9 shells in something like a couple of seconds.  Honestly, when will you EVER need to shoot that fast in a hunting or trap situation??)  Cool to have, but not really a needed feature for hunting or when on the trap line.
-reduced recoil (nice to have if you plan on shooting 100+ rounds a day, but if all you are doing is a couple rounds of trap or spending the day in a goose blind... well...)

Bottom line, don't let all the extra features overwhelm.  Look for a gun that fits you well, feels good when you bring it up, and has a reputation for reliability.  Everything else is gravy.

[Rob]

Oh yeah, he was sold on a 12 Ga so we did not talk about that.  My opinion is, get what you want.  If you learn to use them they will all kill game.  Shot size, choke and the shooter's skill has far more impact on effectiveness than Gauge.  Its not like rifles where it is more important to match the caliber to the game.

I have guys outshooting me on the trap range with a .410!

Keep in mind if one selects a 16, the shells are 25 to 50% more expensive. 

[magnanimous_j]

Sorry I neglected this thread for so long. I was going to wait until I bought something before replying again.

Basically, the day I decided to buy the 870 in 12, they went off sale. So, not being in a huge hurry, I decided to wait until they went on sale again.

Then the economy finally caught up with me and hit my paycheck HARD. I have a job thats base + commision, and my commision has gone down 90% since March. So now the only luxuries I look forward to are paydays when I can afford Pabst Blue Ribbon and Kraft Macaroni and Cheese, not the usual store brand 

My position is getting eliminated at the end of the month so most of my time has been spent job searching in this wasteland of employment and taking heart burn pills for the stress ulcer I'm working on.

But I'm going to hunt those grouse damnit, if I have to sneak up on them with a d-battery in a sweat sock! Luckily, there is still some time before the season opens

[Pathfinder101]

But I'm going to hunt those grouse damnit, if I have to sneak up on them with a d-battery in a sweat sock! Luckily, there is still some time before the season opens

If you do, and you film it, there may be a career there for you.  Tred Barta may have left an open niche...
Good luck job hunting Maggie.