Teaching whoa question

[huntnfmly]

For you with more experience than I
My French Brittany is 10 1/2 months and his training is coming along great.Everytime we go out I do some training or revisiting things he already knows
My question is I just started his whoa training this weekend do you suggest now when he’s heeling that I whoa him and not let him sit at this point from now on?
His que to sit is me stopping.do I change that to a whoa now? I know there are 2 camps in opinions of teaching pointers to sit so looking for your tips and experience
I would like to eventually get him to steady to wing and shot.
Thank you in advance

[pbg]

Hey congrats on your pup. I would stop the sit command now and use whoa when you stop on heel. when your sure he understands whoa put him on a check cord and whoa him and walk to the end of the cord and release him then whoa him at some point before he comes all the way in. I whoa my dogs when we come to a door way, I walk in first then release him, at feeding time he has to whoa to be released to eat the same when its time to kennel. Anyway lots of different ways to do things but as long as the dog is doing what you want thats the main thing. Good luck

[KFhunter]

Does your pup blow through doors when you let it in the house, or to go outside?

Does it burst out of the kennel as soon as you unlatch it? 


Controlling those things is the first whoa lessons that can be started as soon as you bring a pup home, its not the patch of carpet in the yard or heeling to whoa.   Learning to wait to go through a door, or not burst out of a kennel,  or not eat a treat until you say... is to a dog, whoa. That's the foundation.

All you need to do is expand that, then its the patch of carpet in the yard...and finally the skidding halt at a verbal whoa command.

[huntnfmly]

Thank you for the input guys and for the congrats @pbg
Yes I have him sit before walking out or in doors and waiting for food from the kennel not so much I didn’t even think about that thanks for that tip
@KFhunter could you expand on that piece of carpet in the yard?
What I was doing this weekend was I had a check cord from his collar back to his flanks with a half hitch I put pressure on the cord by gently pulling on it until he stopped
When I was heeling him like that when I would stop instead of trying to sit he would whoa on his own so that’s why I was curious of which way to go on that
Thank you again
I really enjoy the training and hearing from other people

[KFhunter]

The "carpet" could be anything, a barrel they have to stand and balance on, a platform, a whoa table....it's just an aid to instill the command before moving on to whoa in the field. 

I've use whoa tables in the garage, that was nice it was heated and I could train in my slippers 

I've used bar stools in the house too 


I do recommend a whoa table, that'll come in handy later if you decide to tackle force fetch, even natural retrievers like labs can benefit from force fetch.  A whoa table could just be a wide board screwed down on a couple of saw horses and a ramp.   I like the purpose built table with a cable trolly on top so they can't jump off the table, and I like them fairly long.  That's for force fetch, but works for whoa table too. 

[huntnfmly]

👍

[jetjockey]

I don’t EVER teach my pointing dogs to sit.  It can often lead to a nightmare when “whoa” training.   So far, it sounds like your doing it right.   I half hitch to their flank and start with heel training by giving a quick tug when saying heel while walking.  Once the dog understands “heel,” then I do the same thing except I say “whoa”, and stop, with a quick tug on the check cord.  Then, as the dog really learns to stop, I’ll say “whoa” stop them, and then will start walking again.  If they move, I pick them up and put them back.  Once I can walk all around and “flush” for the dog, I’ll add the e-collar to the flank as well.  Then, it’s tug and a quick shock.  Eventually, the check cord is removed, and the dog is fully transitioned to the e-collar.  I never transition the e-collar to the dogs neck.

[huntnfmly]

I don’t EVER teach my pointing dogs to sit.  It can often lead to a nightmare when “whoa” training.   So far, it sounds like your doing it right.   I half hitch to their flank and start with heel training by giving a quick tug when saying heel while walking.  Once the dog understands “heel,” then I do the same thing except I say “whoa”, and stop, with a quick tug on the check cord.  Then, as the dog really learns to stop, I’ll say “whoa” stop them, and then will start walking again.  If they move, I pick them up and put them back.  Once I can walk all around and “flush” for the dog, I’ll add the e-collar to the flank as well.  Then, it’s tug and a quick shock.  Eventually, the check cord is removed, and the dog is fully transitioned to the e-collar.  I never transition the e-collar to the dogs neck.

Thank you for that much appreciated
He understands heel really well and he has been stopping and sitting when I stop
So when I first started with the check cord on flank he would stop right away and whoa without me saying it but I’m pretty sure it’s just because he’s use to stopping when I do
I’ll start incorporating the whoa when doing that so he understands the whoa command I’m thinking

Nice looking dog by the way

[huntnfmly]

@jetjockey
So you’re not putting pressure on with the collar until they stop moving their feet?
Just a quick shock while tugging on check cord?
Thanks again

[jetjockey]

@jetjockey
So you’re not putting pressure on with the collar until they stop moving their feet?
Just a quick shock while tugging on check cord?
Thanks again

When they stop moving their feet, the stimulation goes away.  So, it’s a quick tug on the check cord, while simultaneously pushing the button, and as soon as they stop moving, I let go of the button.  The stimulation is set at the lowest possible setting they can feel.  Having the collar on the digs flank will help with the sitting issue as well. 

[huntnfmly]

@jetjockey
So you’re not putting pressure on with the collar until they stop moving their feet?
Just a quick shock while tugging on check cord?
Thanks again

When they stop moving their feet, the stimulation goes away.  So, it’s a quick tug on the check cord, while simultaneously pushing the button, and as soon as they stop moving, I let go of the button.  The stimulation is set at the lowest possible setting they can feel.  Having the collar on the digs flank will help with the sitting issue as well. 

Yes that’s how I was planning I miss read your post when you said quick I wasn’t sure if you meant just using the nick button.
All his other training has been done in the same manner pressure on pressure off
I started off teaching him without collar and only used it to re-enforce what he already knew
Thank you again

[UplandSetter]

Just like JetJockey I recommend the e-collar on the flank method when you make your way to that. If you're just now introducing the WHOA command, I would recommend you keep it separate from the field. Build your dogs drive on birds for now, let him chase and break while he is young in the field, especially since it's his first season. In separate settings (i.e. walking on leash, going out the door, etc), build the WHOA command to stop him on a dime using one of the many methods people discussed above. Once he has WHOA dialed in non-field scenarios, merge hunting and WHOA in controlled scenarios (i.e. pigeons, backing others, etc). WHOA should be used as a tool to curb your dog's intense drive you built in him at a young age. If you don't build that intense drive, teaching WHOA on birds will cause pointiness or even your dog to blink birds.

Your dog is very young though, I recommend focusing more on wild bird exposure and building that prey drive, along with controlling how he runs in the field. Steadiness can be taught after the dog has a solid foundation of field obedience and prey drive.

As always with dog training advice, this is just my two cents. Many methods out there.

[huntnfmly]

Thank you for that I appreciate it
I just started last weekend in the field and since then have been doing it every day on our walks
He seems to be picking it up as he tried a couple times to sit when I would stop when heeling him and as soon as I reached down to stand him up he beat me to it when I said whoa