STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS

[NOCK NOCK]

As much as I agree with you with the oh so many factors…..

This is what I am spelling out.

If you have a corral with a bull and 2 cows in it.    You kill one of the cows, what does that do to next years production.

Now if your last cow dies of a disease, lightning strike,  or a coyote eats it’s calf, where are you on production.   

If you have a bull and 10 cows, eating one, not such a big deal

If you have a pen with a bull and 15 cows, you better eat one so they don’t starve or get diseased.   

What I am hearing from some is that we are entitled to eat that cow as it’s perfectly legal to do so.  the ranch is being run by some dimwit back in Olympia, who probably has never set foot on a farm, but is advising that yes, that last cow looks tasty. Let’s eat her!   

I’m afraid so buckfvr

A different perspective....

The corral (WA ST) has 5 bulls (Bucks) and 20 cows (Does).

Hunting season comes along and massive amounts of hunters with various weapons, and 2+ months worth of seasons to kill something.

Hunters kill 4 of the 5 Bucks, The one remaining buck is safe, but he has to migrate, which will quite possibly take him across at least one paved road. WHAMMO, enter the vehicle whos driver is possibly looking at their cell phone and does not see the buck till its to late.

This scenario can only happen if that last buck is lucky enough to escape the ever growing predator population.

The results in the corral are now zero bucks and 9 does (vehicles and preds. got the other 11)


How does the population grow when there are ZERO bucks to breed the does?



PS, forgot to add the length add effects of Native harvest, that should put us in the negative column for bucks,

[boneaddict]

And I wouldn’t tell you what my degree is in or my qualifications because it might be used against me in the court of huntwa with Judge Rebel.        Don’t tell anyone you don’t own a cell phone, don’t bait etc.    

[grundy53]

As much as I agree with you with the oh so many factors…..

This is what I am spelling out.

If you have a corral with a bull and 2 cows in it.    You kill one of the cows, what does that do to next years production.

Now if your last cow dies of a disease, lightning strike,  or a coyote eats it’s calf, where are you on production.   

If you have a bull and 10 cows, eating one, not such a big deal

If you have a pen with a bull and 15 cows, you better eat one so they don’t starve or get diseased.   

What I am hearing from some is that we are entitled to eat that cow as it’s perfectly legal to do so.  the ranch is being run by some dimwit back in Olympia, who probably has never set foot on a farm, but is advising that yes, that last cow looks tasty. Let’s eat her!   

I’m afraid so buckfvr

A different perspective....

The corral (WA ST) has 5 bulls (Bucks) and 20 cows (Does).

Hunting season comes along and massive amounts of hunters with various weapons, and 2+ months worth of seasons to kill something.

Hunters kill 4 of the 5 Bucks, The one remaining buck is safe, but he has to migrate, which will quite possibly take him across at least one paved road. WHAMMO, enter the vehicle whos driver is possibly looking at their cell phone and does not see the buck till its to late.

This scenario can only happen if that last buck is lucky enough to escape the ever growing predator population.

The results in the corral are now zero bucks and 9 does (vehicles and preds. got the other 11)


How does the population grow when there are ZERO bucks to breed the does?

How many does get bred if there are zero does?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[jrebel]

I think a degree in poli sci is more appropriate these days.   JReb has lots of good points, but he went whacko on me in this thread and I tuned him out.   
Which points did you like of his the most.  The one where I’m not an eco terrorist, or I am an ego something or other, or the one where  I’m so high on my pedestal.

You keep running off at the mouth and saying things that are not fact.  I never used the word "eco".  The more you talk, the more I question your motives.  You have yet to post a rebuttal for how I am wrong.  Most who choose to tune out the oppositions side, do so because they know the opposition has a very valid point. 

Hell, just look at the other post you are involved in where the anti's are planning to have a two day meet and greet with elected officials to redefine WDFW priorities.  You talk about KY and orgies....yet you are doing the exact same thing here.  Trying to impose your will on others.  You may have some valid points but it doesn't change the fact that it is legal.  Hell, after reading the article.....I thought you were going to be the key note speaker.  after revisiting the post to cut and paste your response....it appears you have deleted your post.  I'm confused by your words and actions.  You can't be against anti's for trying to impose their will on hunters....yet do the exact same thing they are doing.  Please help me understand.

And I wouldn’t tell you what my degree is in or my qualifications because it might be used against me in the court of huntwa with Judge Rebel.        Don’t tell anyone you don’t own a cell phone, don’t bait etc.    

Again....running off at the mouth just to hear your lips flap.  Are you off your meds...or just having a really rough day? 

[NOCK NOCK]

I think a degree in poli sci is more appropriate these days.   JReb has lots of good points, but he went whacko on me in this thread and I tuned him out.   
Which points did you like of his the most.  The one where I’m not an eco terrorist, or I am an ego something or other, or the one where  I’m so high on my pedestal.

None of that.

I do agree that intentionally applying/drawing for a permit, and then purposely not utilizing it (when another hunter with diff. beliefs) has lost opportunity because of it is no different than antis doing the same.

What would the outcry be if every year one of the anti-groups, or a wealthy person became a mule and snatched up all the Swakane sheep permits and then stated it was to stop others from killing the rams up there?  It is very similar to hunter harassment. (BTW I have spent an entire 2 days in court for a hunter harrassment deal i was on the receiving end of)

I get your point Bone, and partially agree with it..........just not the presentation.

[NOCK NOCK]

As much as I agree with you with the oh so many factors…..

This is what I am spelling out.

If you have a corral with a bull and 2 cows in it.    You kill one of the cows, what does that do to next years production.

Now if your last cow dies of a disease, lightning strike,  or a coyote eats it’s calf, where are you on production.   

If you have a bull and 10 cows, eating one, not such a big deal

If you have a pen with a bull and 15 cows, you better eat one so they don’t starve or get diseased.   

What I am hearing from some is that we are entitled to eat that cow as it’s perfectly legal to do so.  the ranch is being run by some dimwit back in Olympia, who probably has never set foot on a farm, but is advising that yes, that last cow looks tasty. Let’s eat her!   

I’m afraid so buckfvr

A different perspective....

The corral (WA ST) has 5 bulls (Bucks) and 20 cows (Does).

Hunting season comes along and massive amounts of hunters with various weapons, and 2+ months worth of seasons to kill something.

Hunters kill 4 of the 5 Bucks, The one remaining buck is safe, but he has to migrate, which will quite possibly take him across at least one paved road. WHAMMO, enter the vehicle whos driver is possibly looking at their cell phone and does not see the buck till its to late.

This scenario can only happen if that last buck is lucky enough to escape the ever growing predator population.

The results in the corral are now zero bucks and 9 does (vehicles and preds. got the other 11)


How does the population grow when there are ZERO bucks to breed the does?

How many does get bred if there are zero does?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

So then we kill ALL the deer problem solved.

[grundy53]

I think a degree in poli sci is more appropriate these days.   JReb has lots of good points, but he went whacko on me in this thread and I tuned him out.   
Which points did you like of his the most.  The one where I’m not an eco terrorist, or I am an ego something or other, or the one where  I’m so high on my pedestal.

You keep running off at the mouth and saying things that are not fact.  I never used the word "eco".  The more you talk, the more I question your motives.  You have yet to post a rebuttal for how I am wrong.  Most who choose to tune out the oppositions side, do so because they know the opposition has a very valid point. 

Hell, just look at the other post you are involved in where the anti's are planning to have a two day meet and greet with elected officials to redefine WDFW priorities.  You talk about KY and orgies....yet you are doing the exact same thing here.  Trying to impose your will on others.  You may have some valid points but it doesn't change the fact that it is legal.  Hell, after reading the article.....I thought you were going to be the key note speaker.  after revisiting the post to cut and paste your response....it appears you have deleted your post.  I'm confused by your words and actions.  You can't be against anti's for trying to impose their will on hunters....yet do the exact same thing they are doing.  Please help me understand.

And I wouldn’t tell you what my degree is in or my qualifications because it might be used against me in the court of huntwa with Judge Rebel.        Don’t tell anyone you don’t own a cell phone, don’t bait etc.    

Again....running off at the mouth just to hear your lips flap.  Are you off your meds...or just having a really rough day?

You better watch the personal attacks. Consider this a warning.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[KFhunter]

As much as I agree with you with the oh so many factors…..

This is what I am spelling out.

If you have a corral with a bull and 2 cows in it.    You kill one of the cows, what does that do to next years production.

Now if your last cow dies of a disease, lightning strike,  or a coyote eats it’s calf, where are you on production.   

If you have a bull and 10 cows, eating one, not such a big deal

If you have a pen with a bull and 15 cows, you better eat one so they don’t starve or get diseased.   

What I am hearing from some is that we are entitled to eat that cow as it’s perfectly legal to do so.  the ranch is being run by some dimwit back in Olympia, who probably has never set foot on a farm, but is advising that yes, that last cow looks tasty. Let’s eat her!   

I’m afraid so buckfvr

A different perspective....

The corral (WA ST) has 5 bulls (Bucks) and 20 cows (Does).

Hunting season comes along and massive amounts of hunters with various weapons, and 2+ months worth of seasons to kill something.

Hunters kill 4 of the 5 Bucks, The one remaining buck is safe, but he has to migrate, which will quite possibly take him across at least one paved road. WHAMMO, enter the vehicle whos driver is possibly looking at their cell phone and does not see the buck till its to late.

This scenario can only happen if that last buck is lucky enough to escape the ever growing predator population.

The results in the corral are now zero bucks and 9 does (vehicles and preds. got the other 11)


How does the population grow when there are ZERO bucks to breed the does?



PS, forgot to add the length add effects of Native harvest, that should put us in the negative column for bucks,

You have mentioned the "ever growing predator population"

Is this news to the bio's?

They've had plenty of opportunity to improve that issue, but the 2nd Cougar tag was killed by Inslee and they've initiated a 2 part Cougar season and quota system that a BIO professor and PHD Welgus promoted to WDFW

He's since been outed by his very own college for manipulating the data and lying, I'm sure I can dig up the public letter from WSU somewhere

Since Welgus has been outed and his cougar plan been shown to be a fraud, has WDFW tossed it for something new?


WHY

[boneaddict]

I think he had a good point about that nock, at least a point for discussion.  I see he is still insulting me and almost foaming at the mouth, so I’m not bothering with it. 

As for your scenario, yeah, we are getting there.  I’m not ready to post that topic up yet.   

[NOCK NOCK]

KF,

You speak of cougars, so I'll respond to that.

Do you believe without the use of hounds (voter controlled, not Bios) that allowing the harvest of more cats will actually increase the amount killed by any meaningful amount? 

Very few folks have ever even seen a coug, let alone hunt for them, or kill one.
I spend more time out there than the average guy. In my 45+ years hunting I have seen 3 Cougars, and only killing 1 of them. 

[jrebel]

I'm not foaming at the mouth.  I'm simply sticking up for all the guys, gals and kids that "legally" kill does with a valid tag / license.  I'm sticking up for the people that still believe in a trophy being any animal they harvest with the intent of eating it and not hanging it on the wall.  I'm sticking up for the site in hopes that people will continue to post pictures of their "legally" harvested animals without fear of being crucified by people that don't share their hunting style. 

[Timberstalker]

I eat fish. I eat rice.

[jrebel]

I eat fish. I eat rice.

Do you eat them together? 

[browney5er]

Anybody that shoots a doe in the state of Washington is not a Sportsman in my point of view. Plain and Simple.

[KFhunter]

KF,

You speak of cougars, so I'll respond to that.

Do you believe without the use of hounds (voter controlled, not Bios) that allowing the harvest of more cats will actually increase the amount killed by any meaningful amount? 

Very few folks have ever even seen a coug, let alone hunt for them, or kill one.
I spend more time out there than the average guy. In my 45+ years hunting I have seen 3 Cougars, and only killing 1 of them.

I've seen a dozen in a single year on my highest year, and typically I have at least 3 encounters during hunting season, this year so far only 1 encounter though.   

"will it make a meaningful impact on the overall population?"   No, fat chance.  Most are killed opportunistically and the odds of that happening twice in the same year to the same hunter holding a 2nd tag is very very low. 

So why not allow those handful of successful hunters the opportunity to do it twice?  I can think of a few hunters who have a reasonable chance at filling both tags.  WDFW and the old comission tried to do it, the impact would be very negligible and it would send a message to the populace holding townhall meetings about cougars that WDFW is "doing something". 

Is that "something" meaningful? will it reduce conflict?  not really in the end, but it would improve WDFW's image a tad.  (at least the dog got a tiny bone)


I know that is is against the law for an agency to come out for or against a ballot initiative, but they could have been present during debates and made themselves available to give interviews and informative (but unbiased) discussions on body gripping traps, hounds, bait and whatnot.  There are things they could have done and not violated law.