One hunter, two cougars down.....

[257 Wby Mag]

Here's the story, a guy I work with down here in Chehalis was up on the 311 road, south side of vail on Saturday of late buck. Comes around a corner, there's a longtail, jumps out with his 7 STW,holds for the shoulder, shoots it, cat jumps in the air twisting raising hell, makes it off the road. T.S. walks up to where the cat was last seen, there's a cat. Boom, STW speaks again. Approaches this cat, a 37lb female. Follows blood on the other cat never to be seen again. This is from the guys mouth that pulled the trigger, Game Warden Lance Martin has already sealed the cat.Later

[billythekidrock]

Not the same I'm thinking.

[Machias]

37 pounds, that is sad.  Embarassing actually!

[257 Wby Mag]

It maybe to some, at least his deer killin days are over before they started. I'll smoke em too.

[BrushChimp]

I was told by some houndsmen yesterday that a guy called in two cougars in in the capital forest and shot both. I believe it was this year. Just hearsay though.

[billythekidrock]

37 pounds, that is sad.  Embarassing actually!

This was the reason for my post to begin with. I was curious about the size of "4-5" cougars in a group.

[Cougeyes]

at least his deer killin days are over before they started. I'll smoke em too.

It doesn't matter, no matter how many cougars you take out of an area they will be replaced quite soon from immigrants from another area, the mother will go into estrus quite soon and have another litter.  Unless you totally hammer the cats in an area they will always remain there.

[257 Wby Mag]

Predator management is predator management, with the laws in this state we must do what we can.I kill the hell out of coyotes for the same reasons, they also come back.

[Machias]

Just because you have a tag in your wallet doesn't mean you have to or should use it.  Would you be so proud of killing a 40 pound cub?  That thing barely lost it's spots.  For hunters as a group that is embarassing and should be ridiculed IMO.  That cat was smaller then some bobcats.  Your never going to "irradicate" lions and if that is your mentaility it is flawed.  Like the wolf their numbers need to be controlled, but shooting kits makes us all look blood thristy and small, IMO.  Shooting yotes, classified as a varmit, is not the same as shooting a lion, classified as a big game animal, and as such deserves our respect and protection.

[257 Wby Mag]

There we go Fred, thats your opinion, that was mine. I have never said we need to irradicate them, and please don't judge me. Its hard to manage a critter that you can't effectively hunt.I for one will do what I can to control predators within the law, and that was within the law. I do respect your opinion as a fellow houndsman and sportsman. Later

[Cougeyes]

Well put Machias!  Here's my two cents with cougars and management.  I agree it is hard to manage a critter that is hard to hunt such as what 257 Wby Mag indicated, but the cougar in its own sense manage themselves.  They have strict territories that are defended (i.e. one adult ass kicking male per 100 sq miles or so that encompasses 2 or 3 female home ranges as well).  Actively defending territories for resources (mates and food) against other cougars. People's opinions are just that, but the facts are that declining mule deer herds or elk in certain areas are not all due to increased cougars, but that is what a lot of people gather, rather than looking at stochastic events (i.e. environmental factors such as snow depth, weather changes) and habitat deterioration. 

So as I stated before, killing a cougar here and there as your "predator control management" likely does nothing to the actual amount of cougars out there because they will immigrate from long distances into that area, filling the vacany of the previous cougar.  In some sense if there were 4 or 5 cougars in that group where those 2 were shot it may eleviate some stress on the mother and actually increase the likelihood that the others will survive, but i agree if you have a tag it doesn't mean that you should shoot a 35lb female cougar, nothing really to brag about there.

[Machias]

257 Wby Mag we don't have to fight about it or get mad at each other.  I know that the mindset amongst many hunters, mostly folks like yourself that pursue deer and elk, is they would like to see every lion/predator killed.  I understand the thinking, but I don't agree with it.  It's a mindset I wish as hunters and conservationist we could all get away from.  Lions do not have a huge impact on deer and elk numbers.  Yes they take several animals, about one a week.  Lots of other factors have even bigger impact on deer and elk numbers.  We should strive to take mature animals and the lion is a animal we should respect.  They are incredible animals.  I also understand what your saying about the management tools left to folks in this state and guys really don't have a lot of options.  I just hope you can see a 37 pound cat is something that should be alllowed to mature a little longer.  If not, your right, if it didn't have spots it's legal.

[elkaholic]

Spots or no spots, 37 pounds is embarrassing!!!!!! Why even waste the bullet he could of kicked it like a football and killed it. I agree the tag has been in my wallet for 11 years now, doesnt mean i shoot at what ever moves and resembles a cat. This year was the 1st time i ever shot at a cat.  I was scouting tryed to use ol dirty Harry model 629 8 3/8 " barrell on him. No luck. My hunting partner saw the cat 2 weeks later, stalking him. He is 75 and not as fast as he used to be and couldnt take a shot. Some hunters found one of his deer kills that week. Part of nature, doesnt mean shoot everyone you catch a glimpse of. Would that guy fill his doe tag bye shooting a fawn? How embarrassing.
Fred, good luck with the cats, heading downrange soon for awhile.

[Machias]

Be careful and keep in touch!  4 months or 6?  If you get back and want to finally hook up for some yotes let me know.  Also PM me when you get a chance, I'd like to hear how things went for your Dad's hunt.

[257 Wby Mag]

Embarassing for some maybe. So is killing cows,calves,does, pregnant cows on January and Febuary hunts...... But its legal. Its also an effective way to manage game #'s. I highly doubt this guy will parade this cat around,post pics, etc anywhere. If he is happy with it, so be it. It was taken legally under "fair chase" conditions,was checked by the warden, the warden thanked him for "saving"  deer and was on his way. Billy was asking if anybody knew the story, so I responded. As far as not making a differance? I don't know where you're trying to go with that one Cougeyes? Should we close longtail season down because no matter how many we kill they will keep coming back? Without hound hunting we cannot effectively manage these critters over here.