WDFW $$$ figures on bird watchers

[Twispriver]

I spend about twenty five bucks a month on patio mix bird seed if that counts

[hughjorgan]

This thread is worthless without the supposed numbers.

The link is posted, take a look at the numbers for your self.

[boneaddict]

Well, maybe its a different perspective......   How much money did I spend on hunting or fishing this last year.  Pretty close to zero dollars other than license and application fees.   I have all my gear, and I did not travel to hunt and sadly fish much.

How much did I spend on watching wildlife.......

Well, 16K for a new lens
5k for a new camera
another grand for a tripod
2k for another lens more for butterflies
put 8K on my truck just in Oct and Nov (14mpg at 4 bucks a gallon?)
Hotels, groceries etc.
This isn't taking anything into account for the spring.   

How is 2024 shaping up....
Zero dollars on hunting, zero dollars on fishing
bought a discover pass
Have spent three weekends hiking looking for rocks, and watching wildlife, all involved driving, maybe two tanks of fuel so far

pretty easy to skew some numbers

[MR5x5]

This thread is worthless without the supposed numbers.

The link is posted, take a look at the numbers for your self.

Got it.  Did not realize that was the link....

So...  the report is not a "Hunting/Fishing vs Bird Watching" fight at all, it simply an assessment of where funding comes from in consideration of certain activity types.  Broadly those types are Hunting/Fishing and Watching wildlife, with watching wildlife broadly encompassing anybody who sees a creature from their kitchen to taking part in any outdoor activity where you can claim to enjoy wildlife.  From their it considers all costs associated, i.e. from home bird feed to backpacks to lodging, fuel and all other gear associated with getting outside.  The conclusion of the report is to tout the importance of wildlife to all peoples of the state.  Seems like a good thing to me...

Turning this into another version of the sate against hunting/fishing seems misguided.

[jackelope]

I know a lot of bird watchers.   The Wenas is full of them as I type this.   I bet most don't have a discover pass.   What funds are they taking into account.   I film wildlife every fall and spend thousands, is that part of it.  What are they counting?   Straight up license revenue?  donations?   equipment cost? hotels, gas and local economies?

The original post talks about money going into the WA economy. Doesn’t say WDFW.
The Wenas is full of bird watchers right now. Pretty sure WA is a destination state as a whole for birdwatchers. So yeah, I’d read that like you. Fuel, hotels, restaurants, groceries, etc.

[jackelope]

I don’t know about the rest of you but I’ve never encountered anyone out and about looking at birds or any other wildlife, unless it was other hunters. The figures they come up with are trash while trying to marginalize what comes from us as hunters. As I see it the wildlife watchers and the numbers for their contribution seems like nothing more than propaganda.

You’re probably not in the same places as the bird watchers.

[Ghost Hunter]

Looks like spotting scopes, binoculars, cameras, and hiking equipment expenditures were all lumped into wildlife viewing...

I probably spend 4-5 times the days in the field during the rest of the year scouting as I do during the hunting seasons. I'd imagine they lumped those days into wildlife viewing, though it was FOR hunting purposes/preparation.

Hunting – The shooting or attempting to shoot wildlife with firearms or archery equipment. Hunting as defined by the Survey does not include occasions when an individual only participated in scouting or observing others hunt. 

 

Around-the-home wildlife watching – Activity within one mile of home with one of six primary purposes: (1) taking special interest in or trying to identify birds or other wildlife, (2) photographing wildlife, (3) feeding birdsor other wildlife, (4) maintaining natural areas of at least one-quarter acre for the benefit of wildlife, (5) maintaining plantings (such as shrubs and agricultural crops) for the benefit of wildlife,and (6) visiting parks and natural areas to observe, photograph, or feed wildlife.   

2) Who wouldn't grab their phone and take a pic of a deer raiding the flower beds?
3) I'd say at least 80% of the people I know have hummingbird feeders or bird houses.
4) I've got to think nearly any lot over 2-3 acres would meet that definition.
5) Wildlife benefit from free food in crops, so every farmer, hay producer, etc.

Away-from-home wildlife watching – Trips or outings at least one mile from home for the primary purpose of observing, photographing, or feeding wildlife. Trips to zoos, circuses, aquariums, and museums are not included.

Checking game cameras, maintaining mineral licks/bait piles?

Like most WDFW surveys, it seems they have an answer they want to get to and design a survey to produce the answers they want.  Shift dollars away from having been spent for hunting purposes to wildlife viewing, ignore hunting days directly (if not the one hunting), preparation days (scouting) and probably even include those scouting days in wildlife watching. 

   Twist it for your agenda.  Looks like I have a lifetime spending thousands of dollars on optics and other gear for wildlife watching, all in the disguise of it being used for hunting.  For example, last year I drove 2 trips to Wyoming to spend 6 weeks and only brought home one elk.  So, one day elk hunting and the remainder watching fish, beavers, birds, coyotes, antelope, deer, elk, moose, etc.  Makes it much more cost effective explaining what I spent for meat.     Same for 7 round trips from home to NE corner of state and my wildlife viewing there, just to bring home one deer.  Good thing I don't do much for bird hunting.  I'm sure each and every one of us have contributed to these statistics.   

[Ghost Hunter]

Guestbook from here would be a good starter for stats.

https://ridgefieldfriends.org/

[JimmyHoffa]

I don’t know about the rest of you but I’ve never encountered anyone out and about looking at birds or any other wildlife, unless it was other hunters. The figures they come up with are trash while trying to marginalize what comes from us as hunters. As I see it the wildlife watchers and the numbers for their contribution seems like nothing more than propaganda.

You’re probably not in the same places as the bird watchers.

I'm right next to a little county park.  Maybe once a week some birder group might take a stroll.  Maybe a couple birders daily go to the adjacent national wildlife refuge.
But back when it was a pheasant release area, I think it had about 75-80 hunters each hunting morning plus dogs.  Probably another 25 filtering later through the day.  People joke about deer season being the pumpkin patch, but pheasant release areas were even wilder.  So many people and many driving in from about 50 miles.
I hardly see any birders on the coastal beaches, but go to the same beach when clamming is open and you'll see huge crowds.

[jackelope]

All this time wasted on the forum and we’re missing the Sandhill crane festival in othello this weekend. Tours at $60 a seat, have to register, buses(fuel) for shuttling people, lectures, etc.  Lots of people.

Snow geese up in Skagit county? Tons of people!

Ever been to the Skagit to see the eagles when the chums are rotting? I have once. Skagit Eagle Festival? Crap tons of people up there all spending money on food, souvenirs, fuel,
Etc.

Google “ocean shores snowy owls”. Lots of people go there specifically for the owls.


I live right next to Cherry Valley in Duvall. Very popular pheasant release site. Also for bird watching. There’s even a tower for it. It doesn’t get corked full of people bird watching, but it happens.

I totally get the point you guys are trying to make, but to say that people don’t put a lot of money into the WA economy bird watching tells me some of you are missing something. And I’m not a bird watcher so I’m sure there are other cool bird events or things people come here for. They’re all spending money.

[jackelope]

I don’t know about the rest of you but I’ve never encountered anyone out and about looking at birds or any other wildlife, unless it was other hunters. The figures they come up with are trash while trying to marginalize what comes from us as hunters. As I see it the wildlife watchers and the numbers for their contribution seems like nothing more than propaganda.

You’re probably not in the same places as the bird watchers.

I'm right next to a little county park.  Maybe once a week some birder group might take a stroll.  Maybe a couple birders daily go to the adjacent national wildlife refuge.
But back when it was a pheasant release area, I think it had about 75-80 hunters each hunting morning plus dogs.  Probably another 25 filtering later through the day.  People joke about deer season being the pumpkin patch, but pheasant release areas were even wilder.  So many people and many driving in from about 50 miles.
I hardly see any birders on the coastal beaches, but go to the same beach when clamming is open and you'll see huge crowds.

I think a lot of the birding stuff is migration based, so timing plays a part.

What are we saying here exactly? The first post says wa bird watchers put millions of dollars into the WA economy. What about that is hard to believe?

[boneaddict]

Be a follower of some of the birding groups on Facebook.  Yikes....  WAY more active year along than hunting groups are even during peak seasons.   

Short eared owls is a big one, Blue birds in the Wenas and its not even peak season. I'm probably taking my mom up tomorrow to see her first Horned Lark. 

Heck, just nature itself.  Anyone have any idea how many Aurora chasers drove over Sno Qual last night to the east side to try to catch open skies for Northern lights.  Likely more than the Turkey opener in a couple weeks.   

I think we overestimate sometimes how big our user group really is.   

[JimmyHoffa]

I don't doubt they bring money.  I just read it as an attempt by wdfw to move more and more towards those outdoor activities and further away from the big pot of gold for hunting/fishing.  Go by the thread title, wdfw banking on birdwatching. 

[boneaddict]

Theres a lot of money in wildlife.   Say they make the Yakima River Canyon corridor a no hunting wildlife preserve.   That eliminates tribal hunting as well along the river.   Think of the sheep and eventually deer plus everything else there would be and the draw of people.   I already see how many show up to the feeding stations to catch a view.      They could still figure out a way to keep the sheep units open, just closed along the corridor.   That would way boost the economics of the area.   They have already made a huge fishery out of it.   There's a lot of money coming in to fish the Yakima.     Look at attractions like the Bison Range or that little park in Downtown Denver(Arsenal).   It might have been what they should have done with Hanford.   

I'm thinking they were hoping to dip into some of these user groups a little more with the discovery pass  of course other agencies joined the club and added their BLM pass, Forest circus pass, and so on......  and then many just dont buy the damn thing.   If they could only somehow charge for Bird watching, LOL

[hughjorgan]

All this time wasted on the forum and we’re missing the Sandhill crane festival in othello this weekend. Tours at $60 a seat, have to register, buses(fuel) for shuttling people, lectures, etc.  Lots of people.

Snow geese up in Skagit county? Tons of people!

Ever been to the Skagit to see the eagles when the chums are rotting? I have once. Skagit Eagle Festival? Crap tons of people up there all spending money on food, souvenirs, fuel,
Etc.

Google “ocean shores snowy owls”. Lots of people go there specifically for the owls.


I live right next to Cherry Valley in Duvall. Very popular pheasant release site. Also for bird watching. There’s even a tower for it. It doesn’t get corked full of people bird watching, but it happens.

I totally get the point you guys are trying to make, but to say that people don’t put a lot of money into the WA economy bird watching tells me some of you are missing something. And I’m not a bird watcher so I’m sure there are other cool bird events or things people come here for. They’re all spending money.

I’ve been to the crane festival in Othello. There wasn’t what I would consider lots of people but there was a good showing. The number of people we encountered looking at the cranes didn’t have high end European optics, they were running vortex optics.

I have no doubt birders spend a decent amount of money but I question the data saying it is nearly 6 billion dollars when they are saying only one percent of Washingtonians that view wildlife actually travel to view wildlife(that’s only 40000 people per their data) and the 4.2 million are counted as watching wildlife from home. Did they buy billions of dollars in bird seed, feeders, suet, hummingbird feeder feeders, etc. I don’t see the home wildlife watchers buying high end optics or gear for that matter.

They then marginalize hunting dollars by not include hunting efforts like scouting trips.