Winter Turkey Forage

[bearpaw]

I am interested in ideas for winter forage to help turkeys through tough winters in NE Washington?

bearpaw....

yelp....one thing we discussed was taking some oat hay for turkeys that are causing problems and putting it out nearby to try and pull the birds away from the haystacks, but in the end everyone agreed it is only a temporary fix, every few days we would have to basically feed the birds to keep them away from the haystacks.

The NWTF bio has suggested planting trees that bear acorns, I think oak trees. He seems to think it will take a few years to establish the trees but that its a better long term answer to other winter feeding. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Wacenturion......

Do I have any thoughts....yeah.....I have one.......that's such a typical NWTF text book response.  "All it takes is a forest of acorns" huh?  That won't do s**t in the long run as far as our NE nuisance problems are concerned.  But I bet they, the NWTF, can probably start an "Acorn in the Outdoors" program and collect fees and sell tee shirts.   

Sorry to be so sacastic, but that just ruined my morning cup of coffee.  That bit of management direction is almost as good as when the NWTF suggested Rio's in Whatcom county last year.

bearpaw....

Wacenturion....I still haven't figured out why you are so bitter, but lets just set that aside. I questioned the acorn theory myself, will acorns produce the same way here as back east? Will they really produce food that the birds can get at in the winter? Our birds seem to really do well on pine nuts, problem is when the pine nuts are under two feet of snow they are hard to get. So why would it be any different with acorns? Obviously I am not completely sold on the acorn idea. Do you have any ideas that might work better that we could consider?

yelp...

I think if I was to spend NWTF's money to help with the nuisance issue.  I would fund an educational campaign about feeding turkeys and about winter diets of turkeys with some tips on what landowners (cattleman) can do to avoid problems.  I would also use NWTF volunteers and start a database and document the actual problems landowners have not the perceived problems.

 I would have NWTF fund hay replacement and/or pay landowners to leave some crops for wintering wildlife.  There will always be large flocks wintering in cattle operations.  NWTF could fund trap/transfer efforts.  We could take those turkeys that are trapped and move to other sites.  Pine nuts do get covered but so does everything else.  I think it would take to long for Oak trees to be established and effective.  On a larger landscape I think prescribed burning and seeding partnered with private landowners, USFS and private timber companies may have some benefits to turkeys. 

Remember wild turkey diets are mostly comprised of insects and having healthy poults going into winter is also important.  Outside of artificial feeding it is hard to come up with an approach to assist with nuisance issues.  I do believe that the term 'Nuisance' is over used nowadays.  I have watched flocks of wild turkeys sustain a winter diet of natural foods and make it until the Spring with no heavy mortalities.  I think some use it as an excuse to push certain agendas. 

   


Wacenturion......

First one has to understand the basic biology of oaks.  Here is a chart that shows that generally oaks have to be 20 years old or older before they produce enough acorns to be significant as a food source.  Also, what oak do you plant?  Most are non native.  Oaks are also intolerant of shade....you know like that shade from fast growing ponderosa pine and other conifers....  Not saying oaks are bad...just where they occur is for a reason, as in Klickitat county....Oregon white oak. 
The assumption by the biologist that oaks would solve the problem or even make any difference is absurb.  It would take forever and require huge plantings that would be unrealistic in scope, let alone type of oaks, soils, keeping conifers at bay to avoid shade, manpower, etc.  Sounds good, but generally I call this recommendation, conservation fuzzy talk.  Agree....they, the acorns would also be under snow.

[Wacenturion]

First of all we have to look at the problem and apply common sense.  Previously damaged haystacks were mentioned.  Now without seeing them or knowing what size they are, my initial question might be....can we tarp and then wire over the tarp on some of these haystacks?  That might be feasible if the stack itself isn't gigantic.  One time up front cost to purchase the tarp and flexible enough wire to go over the tarp.  Use both every winter.  I used a similar technique with pheasant damage for a friend of mine near Almira back in the 70's.....problem of pheasants scratching and making a mess during winter over with.  Was a sizable stack I might add.  Anyway, one approach to use to at least see if a particular stack is a candidate.  Best way to end a nuisance problem is to approach it with a solution that ends the problem with a reasonable solution that requires an acceptable level of effort on the landowners part.

Education as Yelp has already mentioned.....simple but effective.  Good common sense information geared at different levels of tolerance from zero....none to not much of a problem.  For the not much of a problem bunch they should be educated that if they are going to feed that they don't cause a problem for a neighbor.  If so....do not feed.  Other good information on what not to do.  Turkeys are pretty good at fending for themselves...leave them alone.  Educate them on shortcomings of too liberal of seasons and the possible alternatives.

Since as you mentioned landowners now see wildlife as an asset, treat it as such.  Leave desirable food plots for turkeys during the winter.  Make sure it 's something they want as much as what's in the haystacks or cattle feeders, otherwise it won't keep them away.  Consider financial assistance for doing some of this from various sources, but be careful you don't turn it into a landowner handout for nuisance or damage program.  Everyone will want on that bandwagon, even when there is no damage.  

As Yelp mentioned......determine the real number of nuisance problems not just what some agent or biologist assumes there is.  Generally the problem is far less severe than portrayed.  To address the problem get a true handle on it first, as well as individual landowner level of discontent with each.

Habitat enhancement should be geared toward plants that survive and produce food.....such as rose.   Virtually indestructible (fireproof) and produces abundant amounts of rose hips, used by wildlife.  Also their growth pattern puts them above the snow line as well as providing thermal and escape cover for smaller wildlife....quail, grouse, etc as well as producing amazing amounts of linear feet of edge if planted right (i.e. hedgerows)....the more the better.  There are many other shrubs that work as well and can be planted in conjunction with rose.  These will not alleviate nuisance significantly but will benefit wildlife year round.  Prescribed burning as Yelp mentioned also a valuable tool.

Some who gives a s**t.  During the 90's program staff from WDFW's Upland Wildlife Restoration program had responsibility for trap and transfer of turkeys and dealt with these nuisance problems.  They had help from volunteers, both NWTF members and others.  Problems were solved, everyone happy, including people on the receiving end that were getting releases.  Now WDFW ignores this approach for reasons I've already mentioned in other threads including gutting the program from 22 people in the 90's to like 6 now.....bright huh?  Get rid of field staff and keep worthless high salaried managers who inhabit a cubicle in the NRB or regional offices.  Stupid....but that's another story.
But, and this is important......volunteers and hopefully WDFW staff (which will be harder) need too understand the landowners problem and help, even if just lending an ear.  It's when no one cares or seems to care, that the problem escalates into something it never was.

Fingers getting tired.....more later.    

  

[turkeydancer]

A rancher friend of mine just out of Kettle Falls was provided with the netting by the NWTF and it has been working for him.  Don't know if  you've every seen it, but it is a very fine mesh.  I understand they don't like how it feels under their feet so find other food sources.

Again - no such thing as "nuisance" birds, just "excess" birds in some locations (we really need to get away from calling them "nuisances" because of the connotations and stigmas associated with that verbage).
 

[SHANE(WA)]

they are, cant stand them

[yelp]

I needem and lovem and want some more of em!     yelp yelp